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That's a naive take that lacks nuance. If your government started doing something you don't agree with, would you renounce your citizenship and move to another

by kelnos 1y ago

That's a naive take that lacks nuance. If your government started doing something you don't agree with, would you renounce your citizenship and move to another country? What would be the threshold of bad things that would be required for you to do that? I think I do have such a threshold, but even as bad as things are in the US right now, I'm still here. Maybe that makes me a bad person. Maybe not; I'd like to think not. Also just consider that we can't all be responsible for everyone else in the whole world. That's just not possible, and not reasonable to ask of anybody. Someone living paycheck-to-paycheck, in a tiny apartment, trying to feed their kids, afraid of getting evicted or being unable to put food on the table... that person does not have the mental or emotional bandwidth to be concerned about people in Iran suffering under US sanctions. Even someone of higher financial means... what should they care about? Should they care about Iran? Ukraine? Palestine? Those are the ones in the news right now at least. But dig a bit deeper and you'll find a bunch of other places where their government meddles in politics and war. Do we need to care deeply about those, too? Human psychology is not built for global scale. Honestly, if we could get all humans to care deeply about their local and regional communities, I would think that would be a huge win. Getting everyone to care deeply about people halfway across the world, and constantly consider them in their life decisions? That's a pipe dream. > In countries where people didn't vote, you can always go back in history to find a moment where people either did agree to let a certain faction run their country (religious revolution), or allowed an authoritarian regime to take all power slowly by neglect and doing nothing. I think at this point you've really jumped the shark. Using Iran as the salient example here, do you truly believe that some 30 year old living in Iran is responsible for a regime that was installed before they were born?

jwr 1y ago
> If your government started doing something you don't agree with, would you renounce your citizenship and move to another country? Yes — and I even thought about the specific red lines that would make me do it. > Using Iran as the salient example here, do you truly believe that some 30 year old living in Iran is responsible for a regime that was installed before they were born? Iran is not a good example, because as many have pointed out, sanctions are often mandated by law, not imposed voluntarily. But there are other examples, where if we follow this line of reasoning ("but regular people are not responsible!") we end up with business as usual while people get murdered. See Russia for an up-to-date example. Being a citizen of a country that murders civilians must have consequences, we can't just do business as usual. Seems unfair? I bet the people who have been murdered would consider the state of things unfair, too.

by kelnos 1y ago

jwr 1y ago

> If your government started doing something you don't agree with, would you renounce your citizenship and move to another country? Yes — and I even thought about the specific red lines that would make me do it. > Using Iran as the salient example here, do you truly believe that some 30 year old living in Iran is responsible for a regime that was installed before they were born? Iran is not a good example, because as many have pointed out, sanctions are often mandated by law, not imposed voluntarily. But there are other examples, where if we follow this line of reasoning ("but regular people are not responsible!") we end up with business as usual while people get murdered. See Russia for an up-to-date example. Being a citizen of a country that murders civilians must have consequences, we can't just do business as usual. Seems unfair? I bet the people who have been murdered would consider the state of things unfair, too.