4 ms·

Officer 0336 is raking it in for the city. I wonder if there is a correlation with the areas which generate a lot of tickets and other city datasets. Perhaps cr

Officer 0336 is raking it in for the city. I wonder if there is a correlation with the areas which generate a lot of tickets and other city datasets. Perhaps crime rate or average household income?

renewiltord 1y ago
It's just his area street cleaning no? You'll get whacked by that pretty easy. On a different day might be a different guy.
jeffbee 1y ago
It's is amusing that you question whether parking citations correlate with crime rates. The reason they give out tickets for this is that these people have parked unlawfully.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  Traffic tickets are typically civil, not criminal.
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > So is tax evasion No. “In the United States, tax evasion constitutes a crime” [1]. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/tax_evasion https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/tax_evasion
      - jeffbee 1y ago
        https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6663 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6663 Moreover: https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-001-006 https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-001-006
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        One, yes, the separate charge of civil tax fraud is not tax evasion and is not a crime. Two, the IRS is a civil agency. It can only bring civil actions, even against alleged crimes. The DOJ, on the other hand, takes criminal referrals. (We tend to see civil siblings to criminal counterparts across our body of law.) Going back to OP’s question, when people refer to a high-crime neighbourhood, they aren’t talking about parking violations.
        jeffbee 1y ago
        Yeah, that's my point. It's not a neutral point of view. Unlawfully operating cars is the most widespread and impactful behavior in SF, followed by wage theft, tax fraud, and tenant harassment. And all the other stuff that gets discussed as "crime" is in 4th place or lower.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Unlawfully operating cars is the most widespread and impactful behavior in SF If you think you can convince your fellow citizens to criminalise parking tickets, go for it. I doubt it has that much support. (But I don’t doubt that confidently!)
        lazyasciiart 1y ago
        Why is it most impactful?
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      You're not afraid to admit what's marketed as a fine or deterrent is simply a weirdly targeted tax but you're annoyed that it's sometimes avoidable due to only sporadic assessment of it. IDK what plane this policy spectrum exists on but man is horseshoe theory clearly alive and well on it.
- vlovich123 1y ago
  Sometimes yes. I've also received tickets from parking enforcement for legal parking and good luck disputing that without getting into a lawsuit. I literally had a ticket issued at a timestamp of when I was on the other side of the city. So there could easily be secondary correlations between areas filled with people who are willing to fight invalid citations and that might correlate with wealth / crime rates.
- enjoylife 1y ago
  Officers are a limited resource, so their deployment matters. Are they assigned to areas that most benefit citizens, or those that most benefit the city? Is the focus on maximizing ticket revenue, or addressing the most dangerous violations, like blocked bike lanes? Are they primarily a revenue tool, a public safety measure, or just extra eyes on the street? Do wealthier neighborhoods receive more enforcement, effectively buying themselves safer streets? Basically I'm wondering does parking enforcement benefit SF residents uniformly?
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    Well, if you look at this data, virtually all of the tickets are for leaving your car in a street sweeping zone at the wrong time. So they are functioning as adjuncts of the street sweeping regime. Then you should think about this history of street sweeping in San Francisco. I think you might find that it is the opposite of your preconception. The wealthiest neighborhoods got rid of street sweeping decades ago, specifically because they didn't want to have to move their cars so much.
  - nerdsniper 1y ago
    Different neighborhoods may want different types/amount of enforcement as well. Some neighborhoods may have tiny driveways and are happy that a lot of cars can get away with parking "illegally" due to non-enforcement and put up with the resulting narrow paths where one car has to pull aside to let another car past. Other neighborhoods might have almost no cars ever parked on the street and people get angry if anyone parks in front of "their" curb, even though it's a public street and anyone can "legally" park there. This kind of difference in desire from area to area should be reflected in municipal codes and have clear signage. But sometimes these neighborhood norms are only reflected in de facto enforcement, not in de jure written legal code. This has a parallel in the form of HOA's. Most of the justifications I hear for HOA's are that they prevent "$THING_1", "$THING_2", and "$THING_3" ... but all of those are already prohibited by municipal code and can be addressed by making a call to 311. However, citizens of many cities often don't have faith in police / code enforcement to respond with a proper ticket. Sometimes I wonder if all those HOA fees were going to the city if that would pay for diligent non-HOA enforcement.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  You'd really be up shit creek if parking illegally were a crime because there are all sorts of protections afforded to those accused of crimes not afforded to those accused of parking violations.
jonas21 1y ago
You'll probably find a high correlation with the street cleaning dataset (if there is one). Nearly all of the tickets at the top of the leaderboard are street sweeping violations. I wonder if street cleaning is net profitable for the city once you factor in tickets. That would make cutting the cleaning frequency [1] a doubly bad idea. [1] https://sfstandard.com/2025/02/18/san-francisco-city-hall-street-cleaning-services-department-of-public-works/ https://sfstandard.com/2025/02/18/san-francisco-city-hall-st...
- swores 1y ago
  Unless a less frequent schedule makes it easier for people to forget when it's happening, leading to more people to ticket... (Just a random hypothetical thought, I'm not saying that is the case or their motivation, only that it theoretically could be)
- larkinrichards 1y ago
  there is -- https://data.sfgov.org/City-Infrastructure/Map-of-Street-Sweeping-Routes-Currently-undergoing/n8xs-xfw6 https://data.sfgov.org/City-Infrastructure/Map-of-Street-Swe... "undergoing maintenance" but spot check of data looks correct to me. Street cleaning tickets are given efficiently and enforcement is conducted to minimize the time that people can't park. 2-4 parking officers drive in front of the street cleaning vehicles and ticket everyone parked. if you're watching at the time you'll see almost every car on the street pull out in front of the officers, circle the block and park right back in the same -- but now clean -- spot. those that don't get tickets.
- fhub 1y ago
  Some day the forward facing cameras on your car will read the street cleaning signs and warn you before you park and notify you if you are still parked there when street cleaning day/time is approaching. The nuance is that you are allowed to park after the truck has gone by (in SF). https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/drive-park/how-avoid-parking-tickets#Parking%20is%20Allowed%20After%20Sweeping https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/drive-park/how-avoid-pa...

Officer 0336 is raking it in for the city. I wonder if there is a correlation with the areas which generate a lot of tickets and other city datasets. Perhaps crime rate or average household income?

renewiltord 1y ago

It's just his area street cleaning no? You'll get whacked by that pretty easy. On a different day might be a different guy.

jeffbee 1y ago

It's is amusing that you question whether parking citations correlate with crime rates. The reason they give out tickets for this is that these people have parked unlawfully.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
Traffic tickets are typically civil, not criminal.
- jeffbee 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > So is tax evasion No. “In the United States, tax evasion constitutes a crime” [1]. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/tax_evasion https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/tax_evasion
    - jeffbee 1y ago
      https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6663 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6663 Moreover: https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-001-006 https://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/irm_25-001-006
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        One, yes, the separate charge of civil tax fraud is not tax evasion and is not a crime. Two, the IRS is a civil agency. It can only bring civil actions, even against alleged crimes. The DOJ, on the other hand, takes criminal referrals. (We tend to see civil siblings to criminal counterparts across our body of law.) Going back to OP’s question, when people refer to a high-crime neighbourhood, they aren’t talking about parking violations.
        jeffbee 1y ago
        Yeah, that's my point. It's not a neutral point of view. Unlawfully operating cars is the most widespread and impactful behavior in SF, followed by wage theft, tax fraud, and tenant harassment. And all the other stuff that gets discussed as "crime" is in 4th place or lower.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Unlawfully operating cars is the most widespread and impactful behavior in SF If you think you can convince your fellow citizens to criminalise parking tickets, go for it. I doubt it has that much support. (But I don’t doubt that confidently!)
        lazyasciiart 1y ago
        Why is it most impactful?
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    You're not afraid to admit what's marketed as a fine or deterrent is simply a weirdly targeted tax but you're annoyed that it's sometimes avoidable due to only sporadic assessment of it. IDK what plane this policy spectrum exists on but man is horseshoe theory clearly alive and well on it.
vlovich123 1y ago
Sometimes yes. I've also received tickets from parking enforcement for legal parking and good luck disputing that without getting into a lawsuit. I literally had a ticket issued at a timestamp of when I was on the other side of the city. So there could easily be secondary correlations between areas filled with people who are willing to fight invalid citations and that might correlate with wealth / crime rates.
enjoylife 1y ago
Officers are a limited resource, so their deployment matters. Are they assigned to areas that most benefit citizens, or those that most benefit the city? Is the focus on maximizing ticket revenue, or addressing the most dangerous violations, like blocked bike lanes? Are they primarily a revenue tool, a public safety measure, or just extra eyes on the street? Do wealthier neighborhoods receive more enforcement, effectively buying themselves safer streets? Basically I'm wondering does parking enforcement benefit SF residents uniformly?
- jeffbee 1y ago
  Well, if you look at this data, virtually all of the tickets are for leaving your car in a street sweeping zone at the wrong time. So they are functioning as adjuncts of the street sweeping regime. Then you should think about this history of street sweeping in San Francisco. I think you might find that it is the opposite of your preconception. The wealthiest neighborhoods got rid of street sweeping decades ago, specifically because they didn't want to have to move their cars so much.
- nerdsniper 1y ago
  Different neighborhoods may want different types/amount of enforcement as well. Some neighborhoods may have tiny driveways and are happy that a lot of cars can get away with parking "illegally" due to non-enforcement and put up with the resulting narrow paths where one car has to pull aside to let another car past. Other neighborhoods might have almost no cars ever parked on the street and people get angry if anyone parks in front of "their" curb, even though it's a public street and anyone can "legally" park there. This kind of difference in desire from area to area should be reflected in municipal codes and have clear signage. But sometimes these neighborhood norms are only reflected in de facto enforcement, not in de jure written legal code. This has a parallel in the form of HOA's. Most of the justifications I hear for HOA's are that they prevent "$THING_1", "$THING_2", and "$THING_3" ... but all of those are already prohibited by municipal code and can be addressed by making a call to 311. However, citizens of many cities often don't have faith in police / code enforcement to respond with a proper ticket. Sometimes I wonder if all those HOA fees were going to the city if that would pay for diligent non-HOA enforcement.
potato3732842 1y ago
You'd really be up shit creek if parking illegally were a crime because there are all sorts of protections afforded to those accused of crimes not afforded to those accused of parking violations.

jonas21 1y ago

You'll probably find a high correlation with the street cleaning dataset (if there is one). Nearly all of the tickets at the top of the leaderboard are street sweeping violations. I wonder if street cleaning is net profitable for the city once you factor in tickets. That would make cutting the cleaning frequency [1] a doubly bad idea. [1] https://sfstandard.com/2025/02/18/san-francisco-city-hall-street-cleaning-services-department-of-public-works/ https://sfstandard.com/2025/02/18/san-francisco-city-hall-st...

swores 1y ago
Unless a less frequent schedule makes it easier for people to forget when it's happening, leading to more people to ticket... (Just a random hypothetical thought, I'm not saying that is the case or their motivation, only that it theoretically could be)
larkinrichards 1y ago
there is -- https://data.sfgov.org/City-Infrastructure/Map-of-Street-Sweeping-Routes-Currently-undergoing/n8xs-xfw6 https://data.sfgov.org/City-Infrastructure/Map-of-Street-Swe... "undergoing maintenance" but spot check of data looks correct to me. Street cleaning tickets are given efficiently and enforcement is conducted to minimize the time that people can't park. 2-4 parking officers drive in front of the street cleaning vehicles and ticket everyone parked. if you're watching at the time you'll see almost every car on the street pull out in front of the officers, circle the block and park right back in the same -- but now clean -- spot. those that don't get tickets.
fhub 1y ago
Some day the forward facing cameras on your car will read the street cleaning signs and warn you before you park and notify you if you are still parked there when street cleaning day/time is approaching. The nuance is that you are allowed to park after the truck has gone by (in SF). https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/drive-park/how-avoid-parking-tickets#Parking%20is%20Allowed%20After%20Sweeping https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/drive-park/how-avoid-pa...