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> Jan 6th is a well known counterexample Trump took to social media to denounce political violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporte

by cbeach 1y ago

> Jan 6th is a well known counterexample Trump took to social media to denounce political violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporters entered the Capitol during a protest. One person was tragically killed (a Trump supporter). The political transition happened. > Trump has used emergency powers to do almost everything since the start of this term. This includes tariffs. He's made a number of executive orders to achieve the actions he promised in the manifesto that got him democratically elected. Few politicians have been as true to their word as Trump, in terms of delivering the change that the people voted for. Trump has not changed the political system. He has merely used its existing executive powers. > He has increased funding to DHS and renamed the DoD to DoW (Defense vs War) So what? What wars has he started? How does his record compare to the Democrat presidents that preceeded him? > Melissa and Mark Hortman were murdered by a right wing nut job. You found one incident of a nut job. That does not mean the Democrat opposition has been suppressed by Trump. And what do you say about the multiple assasination attempts on Trump? It's clear where the political violence is coming from.

piva00 1y ago
> violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporters entered the Capitol during a protest. One person was tragically killed (a Trump supporter). The political transition happened. Why are you ignoring that Trump riled them up way before all that? Are you unaware of that fact? > January 6th, 13:10 > Mr Trump ends his speech with the words: "We fight. We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue." > Shortly afterwards a Capitol police officer calls for backup. Can you picture Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Biden doing a rally like this, completely aware that the Proud Boys were in the crowd, even invited by the administration to be there? Picture that and tell us again how peaceful all of it was.
imoverclocked 1y ago
You are not arguing from verifiable fact by this point. These are Fox (Faux?) News (Entertainment?) talking points at best. Anyway ... > One person was tragically killed A simple search of "Jan 6th fatalities" disproves this; more people died. > The political transition happened Trump made sure to make this as difficult as possible. [1] Trump claimed he won despite not winning. (Search: the big lie) The fact that it happened is not evidence of him resisting it. > Few politicians have been as true to their word as Trump There are so many counter-examples to this, I just don't know where to start. How about the price of eggs and gas? How about resolving wars "on day 1" that he precipitated during his first term? He actively sides with Russian propaganda relating to Ukraine. Ukraine is not the aggressor. The fight is over Ukraine soil... and Putin wants mineral rights to Ukraine. He perpetuates the loss of life in Ukraine and literally rolls out the red carpet for Putin. There are plenty more counter-examples in this space. Just search for them outside of the Fox Entertainment universe. > So what? (re: Department of War) It's clear what he wants the organization to be. Take a step back and ask yourself why he would want this name change? Why devote resources to the name change? What message is he sending with the change? Think critically here because you and I can still both see this change and agree it happened. > You found one incident of a nut job I also found oppression of political opponents which is what we were originally discussing. While there are other examples, I don't need to extrapolate more to prove the original point. > And what do you say about ... Whataboutism [2] isn't a winning strategy anymore. > It's clear where the political violence is coming from It's actually less clear because he has removed studies of that very thing. [3] For both of our sakes, please back your claims with verifiable references. [1] https://presidentialtransition.org/reports-publications/2020-21-lessons-learned/ https://presidentialtransition.org/reports-publications/2020... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism [3] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/17/justice-department-study-far-right-extremist-violence https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/17/justice-depa...
- cbeach 1y ago
  > A simple search of "Jan 6th fatalities" disproves this; more people died. Only if you include drug overdoses and deaths due to natural causes, which happened after Jan 6th. Let's not clutch at straws. > Trump claimed he won despite not winning If he did, it wouldn't be the first time an election loser did this in recent history: "Clinton repeatedly voiced her skepticism about Trump winning the 2016 election. She specifically said, "Trump knows he's an illegitimate president." She told The Atlantic "the election 'was not on the level,' and again ... she called Trump’s win illegitimate. She piled on to this by saying, 'You can run the best campaign, you can even become the nominee, and you can have the election stolen from you,' clearly referring to how she saw her 2016 campaign." https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trumps-denial-second-big-lie-ask-hillary-clinton-rcna55764 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trumps-denial-second-b... Doesn't mean that Trump (or Clinton) are dictators that thwarted the political process. > How about the price of eggs and gas? Inflation has reduced in the US since Trump took office. It soared to 9.1% under Biden. https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/?srsltid=AfmBOoob11ghtkojb79-sP3mhiW46QThaWod14bbT3s_rE1fWrHu7uLQ https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthl... > How about resolving wars "on day 1" that he precipitated during his first term? He actively sides with Russian propaganda relating to Ukraine. Ukraine is not the aggressor. The fight is over Ukraine soil... and Putin wants mineral rights to Ukraine. He perpetuates the loss of life in Ukraine and literally rolls out the red carpet for Putin. Trump cannot win, can he? If he ratchets up pressure on Russia, he's an aggressive warmonger about to start WW3. If he tries to negotiate and arbitrate with Russia (which will mean concessions, because that's how negotiations work) he's "siding with Russian propaganda" and "rolling out the red carpet for Putin > RE Department of War: It's clear what he wants the organization to be. Take a step back and ask yourself why he would want this name change? Why devote resources to the name change? What message is he sending with the change? Think critically here because you and I can still both see this change and agree it happened. Honestly who cares about the naming of a govt department? It might have had a more innocuous name prior to Trump, but previous presidents started more wars. Actions matter more than words. I hope we can agree on that. > Whataboutism isn't a winning strategy anymore ... For both of our sakes, please back your claims with verifiable references. You raised the subject of political violence and insinuating that the Trump regime has specifically presided over violence. I explained that if you compare it to the actions of the Dems and their supporters, there is actually less violence from the Right than the Left. We must put patterns into context for an objective analysis. Asking ChatGPT: "Given the data I was able to locate, the number of well-documented assassination or attempted assassination cases against prominent figures in the U.S. over the past 20 years is relatively small (probably on the order of a dozen or fewer for high-profile figures). Among those, significantly more appear to have targeted right-wing figures (e.g. the Trump attempts, Charlie Kirk) than left-wing ones — though that does not mean left-wing figures were never targeted."

by cbeach 1y ago

piva00 1y ago

> violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporters entered the Capitol during a protest. One person was tragically killed (a Trump supporter). The political transition happened. Why are you ignoring that Trump riled them up way before all that? Are you unaware of that fact? > January 6th, 13:10 > Mr Trump ends his speech with the words: "We fight. We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue." > Shortly afterwards a Capitol police officer calls for backup. Can you picture Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Biden doing a rally like this, completely aware that the Proud Boys were in the crowd, even invited by the administration to be there? Picture that and tell us again how peaceful all of it was.

imoverclocked 1y ago

You are not arguing from verifiable fact by this point. These are Fox (Faux?) News (Entertainment?) talking points at best. Anyway ... > One person was tragically killed A simple search of "Jan 6th fatalities" disproves this; more people died. > The political transition happened Trump made sure to make this as difficult as possible. [1] Trump claimed he won despite not winning. (Search: the big lie) The fact that it happened is not evidence of him resisting it. > Few politicians have been as true to their word as Trump There are so many counter-examples to this, I just don't know where to start. How about the price of eggs and gas? How about resolving wars "on day 1" that he precipitated during his first term? He actively sides with Russian propaganda relating to Ukraine. Ukraine is not the aggressor. The fight is over Ukraine soil... and Putin wants mineral rights to Ukraine. He perpetuates the loss of life in Ukraine and literally rolls out the red carpet for Putin. There are plenty more counter-examples in this space. Just search for them outside of the Fox Entertainment universe. > So what? (re: Department of War) It's clear what he wants the organization to be. Take a step back and ask yourself why he would want this name change? Why devote resources to the name change? What message is he sending with the change? Think critically here because you and I can still both see this change and agree it happened. > You found one incident of a nut job I also found oppression of political opponents which is what we were originally discussing. While there are other examples, I don't need to extrapolate more to prove the original point. > And what do you say about ... Whataboutism [2] isn't a winning strategy anymore. > It's clear where the political violence is coming from It's actually less clear because he has removed studies of that very thing. [3] For both of our sakes, please back your claims with verifiable references. [1] https://presidentialtransition.org/reports-publications/2020-21-lessons-learned/ https://presidentialtransition.org/reports-publications/2020... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism [3] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/17/justice-department-study-far-right-extremist-violence https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/17/justice-depa...

cbeach 1y ago
> A simple search of "Jan 6th fatalities" disproves this; more people died. Only if you include drug overdoses and deaths due to natural causes, which happened after Jan 6th. Let's not clutch at straws. > Trump claimed he won despite not winning If he did, it wouldn't be the first time an election loser did this in recent history: "Clinton repeatedly voiced her skepticism about Trump winning the 2016 election. She specifically said, "Trump knows he's an illegitimate president." She told The Atlantic "the election 'was not on the level,' and again ... she called Trump’s win illegitimate. She piled on to this by saying, 'You can run the best campaign, you can even become the nominee, and you can have the election stolen from you,' clearly referring to how she saw her 2016 campaign." https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trumps-denial-second-big-lie-ask-hillary-clinton-rcna55764 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trumps-denial-second-b... Doesn't mean that Trump (or Clinton) are dictators that thwarted the political process. > How about the price of eggs and gas? Inflation has reduced in the US since Trump took office. It soared to 9.1% under Biden. https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/?srsltid=AfmBOoob11ghtkojb79-sP3mhiW46QThaWod14bbT3s_rE1fWrHu7uLQ https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthl... > How about resolving wars "on day 1" that he precipitated during his first term? He actively sides with Russian propaganda relating to Ukraine. Ukraine is not the aggressor. The fight is over Ukraine soil... and Putin wants mineral rights to Ukraine. He perpetuates the loss of life in Ukraine and literally rolls out the red carpet for Putin. Trump cannot win, can he? If he ratchets up pressure on Russia, he's an aggressive warmonger about to start WW3. If he tries to negotiate and arbitrate with Russia (which will mean concessions, because that's how negotiations work) he's "siding with Russian propaganda" and "rolling out the red carpet for Putin > RE Department of War: It's clear what he wants the organization to be. Take a step back and ask yourself why he would want this name change? Why devote resources to the name change? What message is he sending with the change? Think critically here because you and I can still both see this change and agree it happened. Honestly who cares about the naming of a govt department? It might have had a more innocuous name prior to Trump, but previous presidents started more wars. Actions matter more than words. I hope we can agree on that. > Whataboutism isn't a winning strategy anymore ... For both of our sakes, please back your claims with verifiable references. You raised the subject of political violence and insinuating that the Trump regime has specifically presided over violence. I explained that if you compare it to the actions of the Dems and their supporters, there is actually less violence from the Right than the Left. We must put patterns into context for an objective analysis. Asking ChatGPT: "Given the data I was able to locate, the number of well-documented assassination or attempted assassination cases against prominent figures in the U.S. over the past 20 years is relatively small (probably on the order of a dozen or fewer for high-profile figures). Among those, significantly more appear to have targeted right-wing figures (e.g. the Trump attempts, Charlie Kirk) than left-wing ones — though that does not mean left-wing figures were never targeted."