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It's really difficult to build agentic applications on top of Bitcoin. It's generally possible throughout the EVM however, which is many networks, not just Base

by wbnns 1y ago

It's really difficult to build agentic applications on top of Bitcoin. It's generally possible throughout the EVM however, which is many networks, not just Base. Base won't be the only EVM-compatible network that x402 utilizes.

deleted 1y ago
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littlecranky67 1y ago
That is why I said Layer-2, like Lightning. That is not difficult at all, there are already successfull, workable solutions that allow for automated micro-payments (alby, or Nostr's zaps).
- wbnns 1y ago
  Debatable but IMO Lightning is still nascent even to this day. There is no real large ecosystem of interactive web applications available in-browser that you can build 402 offerings on top of. The EVM is light years ahead. I'm by no means against Lightning, it's just got a long road of ecosystem, development and better UX ahead of it before we see general mainstream adoption. At the moment, bitcoin's killer feature is holding bitcoin. Most people don't know what Sats are. There are few bitcoin-payable apps. Few stable assets that remove volatility for every day payments like you would need with 402. Stuff like that.
  - deleted 1y ago
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  - littlecranky67 1y ago
    It is a bit unfair to say you cannot build any x402 offerings on top of lightning, when the very same driving force behind x402 (=Coinbase) didn't design it to, but instead pushes it's very own corporate technology into the standard (Base). There is no technical limitation in lightning that wouldn't allow it to be integrated into a standard - if you design that standard accordingly.
- thinkmassive 1y ago
  See also L402 (previously LSAT), which has been in production use for half a decade at this point, by Lightning Labs (for their products Loop & Pool) via their Aperture proxy. https://l402.tech/ https://l402.tech/
smashem 1y ago
> It's really difficult to build agentic applications on top of Bitcoin. That's because brain power is being corralled around entities that seek to maintain their control as toll keepers of financial transactions. They have to modernize and they must do it through centralized blockchains to maintain their control.
littlecranky67 1y ago
You profile says "Ex-Coinbase" employee. 'Nuf said.
- smashem 1y ago
  Also ex-Base! Gee whiz.
  - littlecranky67 1y ago
    True, involvement with the Base team at Coinbase: https://wbnns.com/ https://wbnns.com/ (bottom, "Decrypt"). Somebody has stake in the game (pun intended).

by wbnns 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

littlecranky67 1y ago

That is why I said Layer-2, like Lightning. That is not difficult at all, there are already successfull, workable solutions that allow for automated micro-payments (alby, or Nostr's zaps).

wbnns 1y ago
Debatable but IMO Lightning is still nascent even to this day. There is no real large ecosystem of interactive web applications available in-browser that you can build 402 offerings on top of. The EVM is light years ahead. I'm by no means against Lightning, it's just got a long road of ecosystem, development and better UX ahead of it before we see general mainstream adoption. At the moment, bitcoin's killer feature is holding bitcoin. Most people don't know what Sats are. There are few bitcoin-payable apps. Few stable assets that remove volatility for every day payments like you would need with 402. Stuff like that.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- littlecranky67 1y ago
  It is a bit unfair to say you cannot build any x402 offerings on top of lightning, when the very same driving force behind x402 (=Coinbase) didn't design it to, but instead pushes it's very own corporate technology into the standard (Base). There is no technical limitation in lightning that wouldn't allow it to be integrated into a standard - if you design that standard accordingly.
thinkmassive 1y ago
See also L402 (previously LSAT), which has been in production use for half a decade at this point, by Lightning Labs (for their products Loop & Pool) via their Aperture proxy. https://l402.tech/ https://l402.tech/

smashem 1y ago

> It's really difficult to build agentic applications on top of Bitcoin. That's because brain power is being corralled around entities that seek to maintain their control as toll keepers of financial transactions. They have to modernize and they must do it through centralized blockchains to maintain their control.

littlecranky67 1y ago

You profile says "Ex-Coinbase" employee. 'Nuf said.

smashem 1y ago
Also ex-Base! Gee whiz.
- littlecranky67 1y ago
  True, involvement with the Base team at Coinbase: https://wbnns.com/ https://wbnns.com/ (bottom, "Decrypt"). Somebody has stake in the game (pun intended).