4 ms·

Trump doesn't pass the fascism test, I'm afraid: * Dictatorial leader - Trump ceded power at the end of his last term, and the opposition had a term. That does

by cbeach 1y ago

Trump doesn't pass the fascism test, I'm afraid: * Dictatorial leader - Trump ceded power at the end of his last term, and the opposition had a term. That doesn't happen in a dictatorship. * Centralised autocracy - Trump has maintained the US political system with its checks and balances. * Militarism - As with his previous term, Trump is more interested in creating peace treaties (e.g. the Abraham Accords) than participating in wars. * Forcible suppression of opposition - Democrats have not been suppressed * Belief in a natural social hierarchy - Trump believes in meritocracy, not any other order. * Subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy - Trump is the archetypal capitalist - he believes all people should strive to produce with free enterprise, and have an ownership stake in the means of production via the free market. Fascist regimes, on the other hand, have a top-down regimentation of the economy akin to socialism (which is no surprise, as Musollini and Hitler were both socialists before they developed fascism).

esseph 1y ago
Holy shit you really believe this don't you
- imoverclocked 1y ago
  Be careful with this type of argument. It can be easily employed by “both sides” since the information each side is working from supports their own view and simply polarizes each side further.
  - esseph 1y ago
    The largest voting block are independents, so everytime someone gives me the "both sides" argument I normally throw something at them.
    - imoverclocked 1y ago
      I can see how you got there since I did use the term "both sides." My argument is that anyone can make the same claim towards any stance with the exact same passion. Making that claim simply polarizes the opposing viewpoint further. The discourse doesn't provide constructive feedback nor a reason outside of a bandwagon style pressure to conform to a different opinion. Arguably, a cult of personality is part of the problem in the first place. HN tends to value academic discourse rather than emotional triggers. While both do exist here, academic discourse is generally the goal.
      - esseph 1y ago
        You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into, right?
        imoverclocked 1y ago
        Often true. The discourse between people on HN is seen by many so the effects are more varied than just the active participants. As such, I’m loath to leave certain comments completely unchecked.
imoverclocked 1y ago
> Trump ceded power at the end of his last term Jan 6th is a well known counterexample > Trump has maintained the US political system with its checks and balances Trump has used emergency powers to do almost everything since the start of this term. This includes tariffs. > As with his previous term, Trump is more interested in creating peace treaties He has increased funding to DHS and renamed the DoD to DoW (Defense vs War) > Democrats have not been suppressed Melissa and Mark Hortman were murdered by a right wing nut job. Charlie Kirk (a YouTuber) was given the honor of flags at half mast for a week. The rest of your arguments also don’t jive with what I know about him.
- cbeach 1y ago
  > Jan 6th is a well known counterexample Trump took to social media to denounce political violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporters entered the Capitol during a protest. One person was tragically killed (a Trump supporter). The political transition happened. > Trump has used emergency powers to do almost everything since the start of this term. This includes tariffs. He's made a number of executive orders to achieve the actions he promised in the manifesto that got him democratically elected. Few politicians have been as true to their word as Trump, in terms of delivering the change that the people voted for. Trump has not changed the political system. He has merely used its existing executive powers. > He has increased funding to DHS and renamed the DoD to DoW (Defense vs War) So what? What wars has he started? How does his record compare to the Democrat presidents that preceeded him? > Melissa and Mark Hortman were murdered by a right wing nut job. You found one incident of a nut job. That does not mean the Democrat opposition has been suppressed by Trump. And what do you say about the multiple assasination attempts on Trump? It's clear where the political violence is coming from.
  - piva00 1y ago
    > violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporters entered the Capitol during a protest. One person was tragically killed (a Trump supporter). The political transition happened. Why are you ignoring that Trump riled them up way before all that? Are you unaware of that fact? > January 6th, 13:10 > Mr Trump ends his speech with the words: "We fight. We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue." > Shortly afterwards a Capitol police officer calls for backup. Can you picture Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Biden doing a rally like this, completely aware that the Proud Boys were in the crowd, even invited by the administration to be there? Picture that and tell us again how peaceful all of it was.

by cbeach 1y ago

esseph 1y ago

Holy shit you really believe this don't you

imoverclocked 1y ago
Be careful with this type of argument. It can be easily employed by “both sides” since the information each side is working from supports their own view and simply polarizes each side further.
- esseph 1y ago
  The largest voting block are independents, so everytime someone gives me the "both sides" argument I normally throw something at them.
  - imoverclocked 1y ago
    I can see how you got there since I did use the term "both sides." My argument is that anyone can make the same claim towards any stance with the exact same passion. Making that claim simply polarizes the opposing viewpoint further. The discourse doesn't provide constructive feedback nor a reason outside of a bandwagon style pressure to conform to a different opinion. Arguably, a cult of personality is part of the problem in the first place. HN tends to value academic discourse rather than emotional triggers. While both do exist here, academic discourse is generally the goal.
    - esseph 1y ago
      You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into, right?
      - imoverclocked 1y ago
        Often true. The discourse between people on HN is seen by many so the effects are more varied than just the active participants. As such, I’m loath to leave certain comments completely unchecked.

imoverclocked 1y ago

> Trump ceded power at the end of his last term Jan 6th is a well known counterexample > Trump has maintained the US political system with its checks and balances Trump has used emergency powers to do almost everything since the start of this term. This includes tariffs. > As with his previous term, Trump is more interested in creating peace treaties He has increased funding to DHS and renamed the DoD to DoW (Defense vs War) > Democrats have not been suppressed Melissa and Mark Hortman were murdered by a right wing nut job. Charlie Kirk (a YouTuber) was given the honor of flags at half mast for a week. The rest of your arguments also don’t jive with what I know about him.

cbeach 1y ago
> Jan 6th is a well known counterexample Trump took to social media to denounce political violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporters entered the Capitol during a protest. One person was tragically killed (a Trump supporter). The political transition happened. > Trump has used emergency powers to do almost everything since the start of this term. This includes tariffs. He's made a number of executive orders to achieve the actions he promised in the manifesto that got him democratically elected. Few politicians have been as true to their word as Trump, in terms of delivering the change that the people voted for. Trump has not changed the political system. He has merely used its existing executive powers. > He has increased funding to DHS and renamed the DoD to DoW (Defense vs War) So what? What wars has he started? How does his record compare to the Democrat presidents that preceeded him? > Melissa and Mark Hortman were murdered by a right wing nut job. You found one incident of a nut job. That does not mean the Democrat opposition has been suppressed by Trump. And what do you say about the multiple assasination attempts on Trump? It's clear where the political violence is coming from.
- piva00 1y ago
  > violence on that day, but a small bunch of unorganised Trump supporters entered the Capitol during a protest. One person was tragically killed (a Trump supporter). The political transition happened. Why are you ignoring that Trump riled them up way before all that? Are you unaware of that fact? > January 6th, 13:10 > Mr Trump ends his speech with the words: "We fight. We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue." > Shortly afterwards a Capitol police officer calls for backup. Can you picture Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Biden doing a rally like this, completely aware that the Proud Boys were in the crowd, even invited by the administration to be there? Picture that and tell us again how peaceful all of it was.