4 ms·

If the adults ever return to the room, what exactly should be done by everyone responsible, to make nobody else even dream of doing this?

by vkou 1y ago

lupusreal 1y ago
[flagged]
throwup238 1y ago
A never ending vigilance against corruption. That’s the only real solution — any other system or set of rules can be undone.
ryandrake 1y ago
If the electorate wants a circus, they'll elect clowns. There's really not much non-clowns can do about it if elections are to be maintained and fair.
- mpalmer 1y ago
  Until elections become something else entirely, and then the non-clowns can do even less.
atmavatar 1y ago
Practically speaking, no amount of punishment for fascists will ensure that another set of fascists won't rise up again in the future. There's far too much to gain by taking over political power for any deterrent to work effectively. The best solution is to improve education to help people see through the bullshit that got us here. In particular, teach people that campaigning through memes, emotional appeals, and demonization of minority groups are big neon signs that the campaigning group does not have your best interests in mind.
- cbeach 1y ago
  Which "fascists" are we talking about, here? Be careful around powerful words with meaning (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism ). If we casually use these words to refer to people we simply disagree with - one day, when actual fascists start rising, we'll have taken all the meaning out of the language we rely on to identify them.
  - bongodongobob 1y ago
    Trump and his cronies. Who the fuck do you think.
    - cbeach 1y ago
      Trump doesn't pass the fascism test, I'm afraid: * Dictatorial leader - Trump ceded power at the end of his last term, and the opposition had a term. That doesn't happen in a dictatorship. * Centralised autocracy - Trump has maintained the US political system with its checks and balances. * Militarism - As with his previous term, Trump is more interested in creating peace treaties (e.g. the Abraham Accords) than participating in wars. * Forcible suppression of opposition - Democrats have not been suppressed * Belief in a natural social hierarchy - Trump believes in meritocracy, not any other order. * Subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy - Trump is the archetypal capitalist - he believes all people should strive to produce with free enterprise, and have an ownership stake in the means of production via the free market. Fascist regimes, on the other hand, have a top-down regimentation of the economy akin to socialism (which is no surprise, as Musollini and Hitler were both socialists before they developed fascism).
      - esseph 1y ago
        Holy shit you really believe this don't you
        imoverclocked 1y ago
        Be careful with this type of argument. It can be easily employed by “both sides” since the information each side is working from supports their own view and simply polarizes each side further.
        esseph 1y ago
        The largest voting block are independents, so everytime someone gives me the "both sides" argument I normally throw something at them.
- xnx 1y ago
  Educating people to resist fascism is at odds with educating them to be obedient/subservient worker bees.
RobRivera 1y ago
The first line of defense is the power of NO as a patient. Easier said than done and requires staying on top of literature and sourcing multiple opinions. Maybe trips abroad to get that alternative opinion for peace of mind? All spoken from an understanding that the average person cannot afford the time or expense associated with this idea.
MSFT_Edging 1y ago
1: Police unions: Police in this country hold a monopoly on violence granted by the state. Police unions in turn have created a political bubble around the holders of this monopoly. By politicizing what should essentially be a public servant, we have made any accountability for these public servants very difficult to perform. 2: Breech of public trust can never be punished with a slap on the wrist. There cannot be "get out of jail free" sentencing for people of note. That deconstructs any trust anyone can have in the system, if there exists a class who cannot have the law applied to them. 3: A bill of Human rights, designed to encompass attempts to remove rights from certain people. A focus on positive rights, ie "the right to live", rather than negative rights "the right to cause damage to others via an existing right(property rights)". 4: Overturning of citizens united or the ability to punish corporations in an equivalent measure to how an individual can be punished. The fines must always be greater than what can be saved by exploitation via crime. That's more or less a start. I'm no political scientist but to me these are big points of gridlock.
billy99k 1y ago
You mean the 'adults in the room' that pushed an unproven Covid vaccine from those same corrupt companies? The Democrats wouldn't take the Covid vaccine when it first came out and called it the 'Trump vaccine' on CNN...until they came into power. Then they made a 180. During the Covid era, you most likely lost your job and were censored from all major platforms if you had an opinion about the Covid vaccine that didn't match exactly what the government told us. What would you think about getting this same treatment for this?
- esseph 1y ago
  The biggest block of voters in this country are independents, not Democrats or Republicans.
- danorama 1y ago
  “The Democrats wouldn't take the Covid vaccine when it first came out and called it the 'Trump vaccine' on CNN...until they came into power. Then they made a 180.” [citation needed]
- vkou 1y ago
  > unproven Covid vaccine Please inform yourself. Both approved vaccines were rigorously tested. Unlike other vaccines, multiple phases of those tests were done concurrently, which is why it shipped in 6 months, instead of 3 * 6 months. > The Democrats wouldn't take the Covid vaccine when it first came out This begins to cast doubt that you will inform yourself, but from day 1, vaccine uptake was much higher, and continues to be much higher in blue states. The only person who flip-flopped on vaccines was Trump, because he realized that his base is far too stupid to appreciate what Operation Warp Speed did for them.

If the adults ever return to the room, what exactly should be done by everyone responsible, to make nobody else even dream of doing this?

by vkou 1y ago

If the adults ever return to the room, what exactly should be done by everyone responsible, to make nobody else even dream of doing this?

lupusreal 1y ago

[flagged]

throwup238 1y ago

A never ending vigilance against corruption. That’s the only real solution — any other system or set of rules can be undone.

ryandrake 1y ago

If the electorate wants a circus, they'll elect clowns. There's really not much non-clowns can do about it if elections are to be maintained and fair.

mpalmer 1y ago
Until elections become something else entirely, and then the non-clowns can do even less.

atmavatar 1y ago

Practically speaking, no amount of punishment for fascists will ensure that another set of fascists won't rise up again in the future. There's far too much to gain by taking over political power for any deterrent to work effectively. The best solution is to improve education to help people see through the bullshit that got us here. In particular, teach people that campaigning through memes, emotional appeals, and demonization of minority groups are big neon signs that the campaigning group does not have your best interests in mind.

cbeach 1y ago
Which "fascists" are we talking about, here? Be careful around powerful words with meaning (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism ). If we casually use these words to refer to people we simply disagree with - one day, when actual fascists start rising, we'll have taken all the meaning out of the language we rely on to identify them.
- bongodongobob 1y ago
  Trump and his cronies. Who the fuck do you think.
  - cbeach 1y ago
    Trump doesn't pass the fascism test, I'm afraid: * Dictatorial leader - Trump ceded power at the end of his last term, and the opposition had a term. That doesn't happen in a dictatorship. * Centralised autocracy - Trump has maintained the US political system with its checks and balances. * Militarism - As with his previous term, Trump is more interested in creating peace treaties (e.g. the Abraham Accords) than participating in wars. * Forcible suppression of opposition - Democrats have not been suppressed * Belief in a natural social hierarchy - Trump believes in meritocracy, not any other order. * Subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy - Trump is the archetypal capitalist - he believes all people should strive to produce with free enterprise, and have an ownership stake in the means of production via the free market. Fascist regimes, on the other hand, have a top-down regimentation of the economy akin to socialism (which is no surprise, as Musollini and Hitler were both socialists before they developed fascism).
    - esseph 1y ago
      Holy shit you really believe this don't you
      - imoverclocked 1y ago
        Be careful with this type of argument. It can be easily employed by “both sides” since the information each side is working from supports their own view and simply polarizes each side further.
        esseph 1y ago
        The largest voting block are independents, so everytime someone gives me the "both sides" argument I normally throw something at them.
xnx 1y ago
Educating people to resist fascism is at odds with educating them to be obedient/subservient worker bees.

RobRivera 1y ago

The first line of defense is the power of NO as a patient. Easier said than done and requires staying on top of literature and sourcing multiple opinions. Maybe trips abroad to get that alternative opinion for peace of mind? All spoken from an understanding that the average person cannot afford the time or expense associated with this idea.

MSFT_Edging 1y ago

1: Police unions: Police in this country hold a monopoly on violence granted by the state. Police unions in turn have created a political bubble around the holders of this monopoly. By politicizing what should essentially be a public servant, we have made any accountability for these public servants very difficult to perform. 2: Breech of public trust can never be punished with a slap on the wrist. There cannot be "get out of jail free" sentencing for people of note. That deconstructs any trust anyone can have in the system, if there exists a class who cannot have the law applied to them. 3: A bill of Human rights, designed to encompass attempts to remove rights from certain people. A focus on positive rights, ie "the right to live", rather than negative rights "the right to cause damage to others via an existing right(property rights)". 4: Overturning of citizens united or the ability to punish corporations in an equivalent measure to how an individual can be punished. The fines must always be greater than what can be saved by exploitation via crime. That's more or less a start. I'm no political scientist but to me these are big points of gridlock.

billy99k 1y ago

You mean the 'adults in the room' that pushed an unproven Covid vaccine from those same corrupt companies? The Democrats wouldn't take the Covid vaccine when it first came out and called it the 'Trump vaccine' on CNN...until they came into power. Then they made a 180. During the Covid era, you most likely lost your job and were censored from all major platforms if you had an opinion about the Covid vaccine that didn't match exactly what the government told us. What would you think about getting this same treatment for this?

esseph 1y ago
The biggest block of voters in this country are independents, not Democrats or Republicans.
danorama 1y ago
“The Democrats wouldn't take the Covid vaccine when it first came out and called it the 'Trump vaccine' on CNN...until they came into power. Then they made a 180.” [citation needed]
vkou 1y ago
> unproven Covid vaccine Please inform yourself. Both approved vaccines were rigorously tested. Unlike other vaccines, multiple phases of those tests were done concurrently, which is why it shipped in 6 months, instead of 3 * 6 months. > The Democrats wouldn't take the Covid vaccine when it first came out This begins to cast doubt that you will inform yourself, but from day 1, vaccine uptake was much higher, and continues to be much higher in blue states. The only person who flip-flopped on vaccines was Trump, because he realized that his base is far too stupid to appreciate what Operation Warp Speed did for them.