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Its not urgent until the US government starts blocking ESA from launching anything unless the EU agrees to some trade deal. Being independent isn't necessarily

Its not urgent until the US government starts blocking ESA from launching anything unless the EU agrees to some trade deal. Being independent isn't necessarily about lower cost. Its about having an alternative that you control.

rsynnott 1y ago
... Wait, how would the US government block ESA from launching stuff? ESA has its own rockets, which launch from its own facility and which are not drastically more expensive than Falcon 9 (this is a _fairly_ recent change; Ariane 5 was far more expensive than 6).
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > ESA has its own rockets, which launch from its own facility and which are not drastically more expensive than Falcon 9 ESA's launch cadence does not permit populating a LEO constellation. On this, currently, America has a monopoly. (Soon, I expect, to be shared with China.)
  - msl 1y ago
    Developing a reusable launch vehicle is not needed for a fast launch cadence. The expendable Soyuz family has had 2006 launches since 1957 [1]. That's one in just over 12 days, and in reality, the cadence has been a lot faster at times (for long, continuous stretches). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_launcher_families https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_launcher...
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > a reusable launch vehicle is not needed for a fast launch cadence You're correct. But ESA isn't developing a mass-manufactured ELV, either. Themis is basically rebuilding Falcon 1, Prometheus a methalox Merlin. Nothing ESA is doing generates launch independence from America (or China) in respect of LEO constellations or a war in space. (That said, I think reusable super-heavy launch, e.g. Starship, will render both mass-manufactured ELVs and these Falcon 1/9 siblings obsolete.)
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  2nd amendment.
  - mschild 1y ago
    How does that help the European Space Agency?
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      A joke on how Americans use it to solve their problems, even ones studying from the 2nd amendment itself.
- mschild 1y ago
  ESA has in the recent past used SpaceX rockets to deliver payloads. [0] ESA now has the ability but my comment was specifically pointing out that ESA absolutely should have the independent ability to launch equipment. https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2024/10/07/spacex-launches-esas-hera-planetary-defense-mission/ https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2024/10/07/spacex-laun...

rsynnott 1y ago

... Wait, how would the US government block ESA from launching stuff? ESA has its own rockets, which launch from its own facility and which are not drastically more expensive than Falcon 9 (this is a _fairly_ recent change; Ariane 5 was far more expensive than 6).

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> ESA has its own rockets, which launch from its own facility and which are not drastically more expensive than Falcon 9 ESA's launch cadence does not permit populating a LEO constellation. On this, currently, America has a monopoly. (Soon, I expect, to be shared with China.)
- msl 1y ago
  Developing a reusable launch vehicle is not needed for a fast launch cadence. The expendable Soyuz family has had 2006 launches since 1957 [1]. That's one in just over 12 days, and in reality, the cadence has been a lot faster at times (for long, continuous stretches). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_launcher_families https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_launcher...
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > a reusable launch vehicle is not needed for a fast launch cadence You're correct. But ESA isn't developing a mass-manufactured ELV, either. Themis is basically rebuilding Falcon 1, Prometheus a methalox Merlin. Nothing ESA is doing generates launch independence from America (or China) in respect of LEO constellations or a war in space. (That said, I think reusable super-heavy launch, e.g. Starship, will render both mass-manufactured ELVs and these Falcon 1/9 siblings obsolete.)
Hikikomori 1y ago
2nd amendment.
- mschild 1y ago
  How does that help the European Space Agency?
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    A joke on how Americans use it to solve their problems, even ones studying from the 2nd amendment itself.
mschild 1y ago
ESA has in the recent past used SpaceX rockets to deliver payloads. [0] ESA now has the ability but my comment was specifically pointing out that ESA absolutely should have the independent ability to launch equipment. https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2024/10/07/spacex-launches-esas-hera-planetary-defense-mission/ https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2024/10/07/spacex-laun...