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Most educated Iranians hate their government. The problem is that a revolution isn't easy when the government has all the guns, and the military & revolutionary

• tgma 1y ago
  > Most educated Iranians hate their government Where did you get that data from and what do you mean by "hate" in quantifiable terms? (just being "unhappy" with outcomes of certain policies does not mean they would necessarily want to uproot everything for the better)
  • reeredfdfdf 1y ago
    If you meet educated Iranians, and read news on what's happening in the country, it's pretty obvious. Whether it's "hate" or "deeply dislike" may vary by person.
    • tgma 1y ago
      You said "most" meaning more than 50%. I am curious if you have any data on that or it's just guesswork?
    • mvdtnz 1y ago
      If it's "obvious" it should be no problem for you to demonstrate it.
    • llmthrow0827 1y ago
      You are meeting Iranians who are outside of Iran (sample bias), and reading news in English. If you think that qualifies you to make sweeping assertions about Iranian views, I don't know what to say.
• WhereIsTheTruth 1y ago
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  • mda 1y ago
    Are you really comparing your life to Iranians?
  • reeredfdfdf 1y ago
    Iranian regime sucks, American regime sucks. Both can be true at the same time. I'm not a fan of either, although I think Trump's government does enjoy higher level of support in America than Iranian government does in Iran. Trump hasn't (so far) seen a need to shoot unarmed protesters to stay in power, like the Iranians have done.
    • deleted 1y ago
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  • yekanchi 1y ago
    the tech community has fundamental issues. they talk about ukraine all the time( in github , twitter, ..) and still i have'nt seen anyone talk about genocide in gaza and palestine.
• sfn42 1y ago
  People always say stuff like this, but from my pov it doesn't matter what the populace thinks. They are directly supporting their government with everything they do. They are producing goods and services, they are the army, they are the government, the people are the country. They have the power to choose who rules them if they want to. Nobody else does. Iranians are responsible for Iran's actions just like Russians are responsible for Russia's actions and Americans are responsible for America's actions.
  • 4gotunameagain 1y ago
    What should they do ? Stop working, or protest and risk getting killed ? It's easy to call for action from your comfortable life. No, the populace does not bear the same responsibility for the country's actions in all countries. Swiss with direct democracy bear much higher responsibility than systematically oppressed populace in other countries.
    • mvdtnz 1y ago
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      • deleted 1y ago
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      • plumb_bob_00 1y ago
        > It's because they support the regime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahsa_Amini_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahsa_Amini_protests > The protests were described as "unlike any the country had seen before", the "biggest challenge" to the government, and "most widespread revolt", since the Islamic Revolution in 1979. > ... > Although the protests have not been as deadly as those in 2019 (when more than 1,500 were killed), they have been "nationwide, spread across social classes, universities, the streets [and] schools". At least 551 people, including 68 minors, had been killed as a result of the government's intervention in the protests, as of 15 September 2023. Before February 2023 when most were pardoned, an estimated 19,262 were arrested across at least 134 cities and towns and 132 universities. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34346192 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34346192 > Tell HN: Farewell letter of M. Hosseini – executed 01.02.2023 by I.R. of Iran > ... > In the dawn of tomorrow, at the foot of the gallows, I will look up to the sky for the last time, see the last star and cry out with all my strength, "Woman, life, freedom". I will cry out in the name of justice and in the hope of a world without violence, a world that loves nature and that is safe for all the children of the world.
• vintermann 1y ago
  A revolution also isn't easy when you know that the revolutions you could have, would be the ones supported by foreign groups that absolutely don't want your country well. USA on no account will tolerate an Iran which is both free and democratic and at all economically developed, because they don't trust a democratic public to support pro-American policies in the middle east - especially related to Israel and oil. Just like they don't trust that in any of the Arab states. If you want a democratic Iran, both the current government of Iran and its most powerful enemies will do everything they can to stop you.
  • e-khadem 1y ago
    I would argue that not every society will thrive under a democracy. The people must be somewhat educated, politically savy, considerate, and accommodating. At least this has to be true in the beginning of a democracy where the people are laying the foundations. Now I agree that the policies of the United States may not always be in the interest of the people from that part of the world, but a "mild" dictator like the one that the Saudi Arabia has or the one that Turkey has right now, these are better models sometimes. The SA of 50 years ago had no notion of human rights and severely under developed and could in no way support a democracy. Of course a dictatorship is not ideal, and the people of SA will have to pay a terrible price for it some day, but for now a dictatorship that "bows" to the west is not the worst thing either.
    • vintermann 1y ago
      Yeah, I consider that attitude paternalistic authoritarianism, and pretty contemptible. Of the people who "lack the proper virtues" for a democracy, I would rank people like you highest.
    • amrangaye 1y ago
      Spoken like someone who’s never lived under a dictatorship :)
    • pengaru 1y ago
      "Democ­ra­cy is the worst form of gov­ern­ment, except for all the oth­ers"
• sigmoid10 1y ago
  People here make it easy on themselves by blaming everything on "the government," but you should never underestimate the level of brainwashing. According to independent polls, it's more like 50% of Iranians still support their government. And it used to be closer to 80% a few years ago. I was lucky enough to be born into one of the wealthier nations, and our trust levels are much lower, despite our government doing not nearly as much crazy obviously evil stuff. I'd say the problem is not support of the government, it is education. The better educated people are, the less likely they are to blindly trust authority. And Iran lost most of its educated people already in the islamic revolution.
  • tgma 1y ago
    Independent polls? How do you conduct such a poll reliably when there are legitimate consequences in expressing you have a certain opinion?
    • lukan 1y ago
      Yup, same with "independent" polls in russia about war support. Some anonymous person claiming to be not government calls people and asks for their war support? Who would give an honest answer here?
      • sigmoid10 1y ago
        The fact that 50% of Iranians disagree with their government nowadays kind of disproves that idea. Why would they say that if you are correct in your assumptions?
    • holowoodman 1y ago
      It is generally impossible in non-free societies to get accurate information about public opinion. It is already hard in free ones. Polls are notoriously unreliable when a topic is considered sensitive even in a free society. People will self-censor and misreport even if they are assured anonymity and wouldn't have to fear consequences beyond social stigma. When a new right-wing fringe party ("AfD") showed up in Germany, they were from day one publically decried as fishy neo-nazis, revisionists, etc., so supporting AfD carries a stigma. (I'm not stating that those accusations are true or untrue, just that they are frequently made in public). This lead to severe underestimations in the first few polls, because people voting for AfD didn't want to tell about it when asked. Nowadays, polls are more accurate because some amount of misreporting is taken into account. Tales from an insider don't help very much, because people will only report about their own bubble, the city/province/town they live in, their family and friends of similar interest and social status, their workplace, etc. Also, there can be a severe selection bias, people wanting to talk to outsiders on the internet or even leave a country are probably more often critical of a regime and its decisions. So from the outside, the only sensible thing we can do is see the country as a whole, lump in the government with the people. Because we cannot really know if people think differently and who they are. We cannot isolate or punish "just the government". And if there were a majority against the current government, there would be a revolution at some point. If there isn't one, opposition against the regime just isn't strong enough.
• gnfargbl 1y ago
  The primary intent of sanctions isn't to foment revolution -- policymakers are well aware of the reality you outline. The actual intent of sanctions is to cause economic damage. In that respect this is an account of the sanctions working exactly as intended: they are making it harder for OP to work as a software developer, which makes it harder for the Iranian regime to benefit (directly or indirectly) from the efforts of software developers in Iran.
  • lm28469 1y ago
    That's the theory yes, in practice we can clearly see that some uneducated people gladly blame all Iranians for the actions of their leaders. It's probably some kind of coping mechanism for not knowing anything about the people they're talking about, or they want to keep their world view nice and clean: we, the good guys, VS them, the uncivilized bad guys. It's as accurate as saying "all Americans are pro Maga white Christians because obviously if they weren't their government would be different"
  • aleph_minus_one 1y ago
    > they are making it harder for OP to work as a software developer, which makes it harder for the Iranian regime to benefit (directly or indirectly) from the efforts of software developers in Iran. A shower thought: Wouldn't it make more sense if country A that considers sanctions against country B provided very "cushy" immigration laws for highly educated people from country B so that country A profits from these people's efforts while country B will suffer from a brain drain?
• DanielHB 1y ago
  I always thought the main goal of sanctions was to deprive the sanctioned governments of income which in turns makes it harder for them to cause problems externally and hold power internally. And by "hold power internally" I don't mean population uprising, I mean to keep the factions within the government (especially the military) united under the leadership by buying them out. I believe increased population unhappiness is more of a side-effect that can be both beneficial (if it incites anti-government sentiment) or detrimental (if it incites nationalism) to the country imposing sanctions.
• giancarlostoro 1y ago
  > It would be much more productive to try turn the army against the regime, or organize political and armed resistance. Like we did in Afghanistan? Because we lost Afghanistan in the same time we took the country, about two weeks.
• kelnos 1y ago
  > It would be much more productive to try turn the army against the regime, or organize political and armed resistance. The current government of Iran is a direct result of the US's meddling in this way, so I'm not convinced this is a winning strategy either.