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American prisoners are, if you look at it objectively, slaves. They are forced to work for for-profit companies for minimal pay, which is deducted by their liv

American prisoners are, if you look at it objectively, slaves. They are forced to work for for-profit companies for minimal pay, which is deducted by their living expenses and basic amenities.

adastra22 1y ago
They are literal slaves. The 13th amendment of the constitution: > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime* whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Slavery is still legal in the United States of America.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  > They are literal slaves. It's legal to enslave them, but in general it isn't true that they actually are enslaved.
  - js8 1y ago
    I downvoted you. Reason - I don't see/understand what argument are you making. It seems you're just stating the claim.
    - thaumasiotes 1y ago
      I'm contradicting the claim. Prisoners aren't slaves. They could be enslaved, but they aren't. They are never sold into slavery and almost never compelled to do any work. This is the opposite of being "literal slaves". They are literally not slaves. ...unless you believe that before the 17th century, everyone in the world was literally a slave? It was legal to enslave them too.
      - adastra22 1y ago
        3/4 of prisoners in the US endure forced labor according to the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploit...
        thaumasiotes 1y ago
        That link doesn't say 3/4 of prisoners. It says 3/4 of incarcerated workers. Incarcerated nonworkers aren't counted at all. It also doesn't say that they report being compelled to work. It says they receive benefits from working that they don't receive without working. The fact that voluntary workers get their sentences reduced doesn't convert them into involuntary workers.
        onraglanroad 1y ago
        You're both wrong about the number of prisoners. The link clearly states 2/3 of prisoners are workers and 3/4 of them report being compelled to work. That works out at 1/2 of all prisoners. Trying to spin this as benefits is...odd: "they are required to work or face additional punishment such as solitary confinement, denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence, and loss of family visitation."
        thaumasiotes 1y ago
        > "they are required to work or face additional punishment such as solitary confinement, denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence, and loss of family visitation." "Denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence" means that prisoners with jobs are considered to be better candidates for sentence reduction by various means. That's true, but it doesn't come anywhere near "being compelled to work". The ACLU doesn't provide any numbers on who reports being compelled to work. They provide a large number that includes some things that qualify as coercion and some that are entirely innocuous. This is the "prison forced labor" analogue of reporting that large majorities of female undergraduates suffer sexual assault on campus, where the definition of sexual assault includes "unwelcome sexual remarks".
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]

American prisoners are, if you look at it objectively, slaves. They are forced to work for for-profit companies for minimal pay, which is deducted by their living expenses and basic amenities.

adastra22 1y ago

They are literal slaves. The 13th amendment of the constitution: > Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime* whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Slavery is still legal in the United States of America.

thaumasiotes 1y ago
> They are literal slaves. It's legal to enslave them, but in general it isn't true that they actually are enslaved.
- js8 1y ago
  I downvoted you. Reason - I don't see/understand what argument are you making. It seems you're just stating the claim.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    I'm contradicting the claim. Prisoners aren't slaves. They could be enslaved, but they aren't. They are never sold into slavery and almost never compelled to do any work. This is the opposite of being "literal slaves". They are literally not slaves. ...unless you believe that before the 17th century, everyone in the world was literally a slave? It was legal to enslave them too.
    - adastra22 1y ago
      3/4 of prisoners in the US endure forced labor according to the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploit...
      - thaumasiotes 1y ago
        That link doesn't say 3/4 of prisoners. It says 3/4 of incarcerated workers. Incarcerated nonworkers aren't counted at all. It also doesn't say that they report being compelled to work. It says they receive benefits from working that they don't receive without working. The fact that voluntary workers get their sentences reduced doesn't convert them into involuntary workers.
        onraglanroad 1y ago
        You're both wrong about the number of prisoners. The link clearly states 2/3 of prisoners are workers and 3/4 of them report being compelled to work. That works out at 1/2 of all prisoners. Trying to spin this as benefits is...odd: "they are required to work or face additional punishment such as solitary confinement, denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence, and loss of family visitation."
        thaumasiotes 1y ago
        > "they are required to work or face additional punishment such as solitary confinement, denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence, and loss of family visitation." "Denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence" means that prisoners with jobs are considered to be better candidates for sentence reduction by various means. That's true, but it doesn't come anywhere near "being compelled to work". The ACLU doesn't provide any numbers on who reports being compelled to work. They provide a large number that includes some things that qualify as coercion and some that are entirely innocuous. This is the "prison forced labor" analogue of reporting that large majorities of female undergraduates suffer sexual assault on campus, where the definition of sexual assault includes "unwelcome sexual remarks".
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]