7 ms·

I used to agree with this line of reasoning, but then I saw that the same process was used to block war crimes investigators from using Microsoft's software.

by jbm 1y ago

danlitt 1y ago
Does that affect the reasoning? Even though I think it is profoundly wrong, I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about.
- 47282847 1y ago
  > nobody is going to care about Obviously untrue. Iran has 90 million citizens, and multitudes of that number do care out of principle. I am not trying to change your mind, but hope you would be more precise in your language next time to describe why you don’t care.
  - lucianbr 1y ago
    Sounds more like "nobody I care about is going to care about", which seems rather reasonable and eminently human. But maybe a useful increase in precision.
    - danlitt 1y ago
      Rather "nobody with power is going to care".
  - danlitt 1y ago
    Who said I don't care? I care a lot, I just don't care more than I care about staying out of federal prison. It would be one thing if you'd be carrying the torch and the public would be behind you if only you'd be so courageous. But that is a naive fantasy: I know, and you know, that you'd be hounded as a "terrorist", they would throw the book at you and throw away the key. Approximately 0.01% of your fellow citizens would even understand the issue, let alone be on your side. Petition for change, sure. Complain in public. Protest. But don't martyr yourself for nothing.
- fransje26 1y ago
  First they came for the Communists, [..] https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-nie...
  - danlitt 1y ago
    Are you for real? Being unable to access github is not exactly comparable to rounding people up to be murdered.
    - fransje26 1y ago
      Historically, the rounding-up were not meant to straight-up murder people, but to get rid of undesirables.. Now, if we read the original parent post wrote: > [..] the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal prison. [..] you, the manager or executive in charge, and anyone else who is in the know on the transaction is now facing 20 years in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison if they don't immediately cease all communication and break off contact That sounds a lot closer to "rounding-up" than "a strong attempt to prevent technology transfers supporting unwanted regimes." Now for the kicker. Taking into context the US developments of the past 9 months, the people affected by such legal threats are a lot closer to the indiscriminate "rounding people up" part than to the "balanced and reasonable legal consequences" part. Just a small thing to ponder about before blurting out things such as > I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about Yesterday, one might not have cared about communists being rounded up, today it might be "illegal" migrants being ICEed up, who knows what it will be tomorrow.
      - jjkaczor 1y ago
        Oh that's an easy one - at least in the US... Democrats and anyone who has ever expressed an "anti-fascist/anti-fascism" opinion online - or attended a recent protest... Their "regime" leadership has stated as much.
        1y ago
TiredOfLife 1y ago
Except that didn't happen https://www.politico.eu/article/microsoft-did-not-cut-services-international-criminal-court-president-american-sanctions-trump-tech-icc-amazon-google/ https://www.politico.eu/article/microsoft-did-not-cut-servic...
- supermatt 1y ago
  I’m unclear as to why you think that article disproves the GP. In your linked article Microsoft say they didn’t block “the ICC”, but also mention the “disconnection of an official”. They were accused of blocking a single individual (the chief prosecutor), and the response is basically “we didnt block the whole organisation”?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- snickerdoodle14 1y ago
  Of course it did, it's been extensively covered in European newspapers and the article you linked doesn't even refute it happening. Microsoft is just twisting the truth to make themselves look less bad. Don't be so gullible.

I used to agree with this line of reasoning, but then I saw that the same process was used to block war crimes investigators from using Microsoft's software.

by jbm 1y ago

I used to agree with this line of reasoning, but then I saw that the same process was used to block war crimes investigators from using Microsoft's software.

danlitt 1y ago

Does that affect the reasoning? Even though I think it is profoundly wrong, I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about.

47282847 1y ago
> nobody is going to care about Obviously untrue. Iran has 90 million citizens, and multitudes of that number do care out of principle. I am not trying to change your mind, but hope you would be more precise in your language next time to describe why you don’t care.
- lucianbr 1y ago
  Sounds more like "nobody I care about is going to care about", which seems rather reasonable and eminently human. But maybe a useful increase in precision.
  - danlitt 1y ago
    Rather "nobody with power is going to care".
- danlitt 1y ago
  Who said I don't care? I care a lot, I just don't care more than I care about staying out of federal prison. It would be one thing if you'd be carrying the torch and the public would be behind you if only you'd be so courageous. But that is a naive fantasy: I know, and you know, that you'd be hounded as a "terrorist", they would throw the book at you and throw away the key. Approximately 0.01% of your fellow citizens would even understand the issue, let alone be on your side. Petition for change, sure. Complain in public. Protest. But don't martyr yourself for nothing.
fransje26 1y ago
First they came for the Communists, [..] https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-nie...
- danlitt 1y ago
  Are you for real? Being unable to access github is not exactly comparable to rounding people up to be murdered.
  - fransje26 1y ago
    Historically, the rounding-up were not meant to straight-up murder people, but to get rid of undesirables.. Now, if we read the original parent post wrote: > [..] the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal prison. [..] you, the manager or executive in charge, and anyone else who is in the know on the transaction is now facing 20 years in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison if they don't immediately cease all communication and break off contact That sounds a lot closer to "rounding-up" than "a strong attempt to prevent technology transfers supporting unwanted regimes." Now for the kicker. Taking into context the US developments of the past 9 months, the people affected by such legal threats are a lot closer to the indiscriminate "rounding people up" part than to the "balanced and reasonable legal consequences" part. Just a small thing to ponder about before blurting out things such as > I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about Yesterday, one might not have cared about communists being rounded up, today it might be "illegal" migrants being ICEed up, who knows what it will be tomorrow.
    - jjkaczor 1y ago
      Oh that's an easy one - at least in the US... Democrats and anyone who has ever expressed an "anti-fascist/anti-fascism" opinion online - or attended a recent protest... Their "regime" leadership has stated as much.
      - 1y ago

TiredOfLife 1y ago

Except that didn't happen https://www.politico.eu/article/microsoft-did-not-cut-services-international-criminal-court-president-american-sanctions-trump-tech-icc-amazon-google/ https://www.politico.eu/article/microsoft-did-not-cut-servic...

supermatt 1y ago
I’m unclear as to why you think that article disproves the GP. In your linked article Microsoft say they didn’t block “the ICC”, but also mention the “disconnection of an official”. They were accused of blocking a single individual (the chief prosecutor), and the response is basically “we didnt block the whole organisation”?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
snickerdoodle14 1y ago
Of course it did, it's been extensively covered in European newspapers and the article you linked doesn't even refute it happening. Microsoft is just twisting the truth to make themselves look less bad. Don't be so gullible.