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Designating Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization
- abstractspoon 1y agoWhat matters more perhaps is to be seen to be taking a hard line
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jauntywundrkind 1y agoAbsolute nonsense and hogwash, with zero shown basis in fact. Thankfully just empty words on paper, of no actual legal constitution, but the intent of the administration to go after people they don't like, to create an illusion of shadowy forces to justify their own violence & misdeeds, is clear & wicked. America should be fighting fascists!
- russdill 1y agoAnd a reminder, they have been doing quite a few extra judicial killings lately based on the classification of "terrorism".
- SanjayMehta 1y agoHow is that new?
- virtue3 1y ago*more than usual
- Ancapistani 1y agoAnd communists.
- Forgeties79 1y agoI’ll trust a communist over a fascist every single time. They are not remotely the same thing.
- gubbler 1y ago[flagged]
- mariusor 1y agoI must be behind on my political theory because that does not follow any logic I know of. The extreme left advocates for equal rights and equal wealth distribution, while the extreme right advocates for themselves in opposition to all others. As ideals I know which is more human.
- gubbler 1y ago[flagged]
- mariusor 1y agoBeing a full grown adult and still looking at a whole category of other people as freaks and dysgenics (yay for actual nazi terminology here, which I was actually trying really hard not to label you with) is a very non-humanistic perspective which shows you for a terrible person. If you're legitimately thinking that, and not being a full troll, is beyond sad in my opinion. Dragging this "us vs. them" ideology into the Overton window is, in my opinion, the greatest evil that the current public figures of US politics and culture are guilty of. People like you that embrace it and spew it to others are going to be their victims in the end too. There's no remorse and no empathy from the sociopaths at the top, and there's going to be only so much "otherness" out there.
- gubbler 1y ago[dead]
- fuzzer371 1y ago[flagged]
- throwmeaway222 1y agoWell that's word play which means as much as Biden declaring people that want to make America Great are awful people.
- Smeevy 1y ago[flagged]
- stale2002 1y ago[flagged]
- seeEllArr 1y ago[dead]
- amanaplanacanal 1y agoRioting is already illegal. This order has nothing to do with that. It's about painting his political enemies as terrorists.
- stale2002 1y agoMost things that terrorist organizations do are already illegal. And yet we make additional laws anyway to more effectively target them anyway.
- Smeevy 1y ago1-2 billion dollars? Over 2 weeks across 20 states? That's horrible. January 6th damage was estimated at $2.7 billion dollars by the GAO. That riot (more of an attempted coup) actually was coordinated by actual, tangible right wing extremist groups rather than the shadowy "Antifa" fiction that hides underneath all of your beds. https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-106625.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-106625.pdf >It is riots like those mentioned that I presume this executive order is targeting. You presume? This administration has lost the benefit of any doubt. This is a cabal of shameless liars and they should be denounced at every turn. This is yet another transparent attempt to circumvent basic American rights and you're defending it like I said something mean about your local sports team.
- Grimblewald 1y agoMakes sense. If something is terrorisms has always been about alignment of values and to a facist, anti-facists would 100% register as terrorists. Good to see the current US admin admitting it more openly, not that they have been particularly coy about it the last few months.
- Ancapistani 1y agoTerrorism is the use of violence (or threat thereof) in pursuit of political objectives, against the public.
- Grimblewald 1y agoThen what makes any military endevour non-terrorist? Isn't it all politically motivated in the end?
- Simulacra 1y agoOne man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The argument will never be won.
- Grimblewald 1y agoRight, the point being if you terrorist is someone who fights fascism, is that not the same as soft admitting to being a fascist?
- ModernMech 1y agoBetter propaganda.
- queenkjuul 1y agoYou've almost got it
- Grimblewald 1y agoI think we might be on the same page. The point being that terrorism is anything that tries to push political ideals contrary to the status quo you wish to either enact or uphold. So then if you label anti-fascism as terrorism, is that not the same as soft admitting to being a fascist?
- lostlogin 1y ago> Antifa as a Terrorist Threat. Antifa is a militarist, anarchist enterprise that explicitly calls for the overthrow of the United States Government, law enforcement authorities, and our system of law. Does it? Or does it call for the Trump administration to be overthrown?
- bluefirebrand 1y agoDo you think that talking about overthrowing the legitimately elected government should not qualify as "terrorist threat"?
- lostlogin 1y agoSo how would that compare with Trumps crowd storming the capitol? That was apparently fine, but antifa calling for it (if that even happened) is terrorism? Politicians call for governments to resign/quit etc on a regular basis. Happened here in New Zealand last week.
- whoamii 1y agoAs long as we consider the Jan 6 rioters terrorists as well, I’m good.
- amanaplanacanal 1y agoThey were just picnickers out having a good time. I guess.
- k33n 1y ago[flagged]
- bluefirebrand 1y agoI'm fine with that, in case you think this was some kinda gotcha
- navane 1y ago
- silicon5 1y agoPerhaps this is going to go like in the UK, where Palestine Action was proscribed, with the secondary effect that anyone who expresses support for Palestine Action is designated a terrorist even if they're not formally a member.
- TheOtherHobbes 1y agoThis makes as much as sense as claiming that Tylenol causes autism. It's not even frightening - just comical.
- the_gastropod 1y agoRespectfully, I disagree. It's kind of funny. But it is frightening because a not insignificant number of people take him seriously. I know multiple people who took Ivermectin for Covid during his first presidency. The “terrorist” designation of drug cartels is the excuse they’re using (and currently getting away with) for the 4 boats they’ve bombed into oblivion in the Caribbean. It’s kind of funny in its stupidity. But it’s also frightening how impactful that stupidity has been.
- omnimus 1y agoAgree. Taking this as a joke (because its ridiculous) allows one to disregard it too easily. But as the rules of what is Antifa broaden - one might realize its too late. Then again it is so funny that there is a country that just literally banned anti-fascism and that country is not Russia or North Korea… but USA.
- queenkjuul 1y agoI'm sure North Korea considers themselves strongly anti-fascist to begin with
- pluc 1y agoY'all gonna do something about this or are you still waiting it out?
- slater 1y agomid-term elections next year, maybe we can get some adults back in power
- FranzFerdiNaN 1y agoLets not pretend that this government will allow the Democrats to win those elections. They are going to do anything they can to fuck with the results.
- slater 1y agoThey always do. I can only hope (and yes, that's a Planck-length-width sliver of hope) that the dem votes will be too overwhelming to ignore/fuck-with. Yes, I know.
- ViewTrick1002 1y agoWill there be a midterm? Will the national guard prevent and/or interfere with the elections in cities controlled by the Democrats where they are being deployed ensuring the "correct" outcome?
- area51org 1y agoWhat would you propose? Donating money to blackhole political organizations? Taking to the streets? None of that, or much of anything else, will "do something about this". There is no doing anything about this. It's also just meaningless posturing, just another tantrum by a man-child.
- baby 1y agoRemember, October 18th https://www.nokings.org/ https://www.nokings.org/
- elgenie 1y agoThis is an incoherent blog post. 1. The concept of "domestic terrorist organization" not a thing under any US law. Further, there exists no such organization in observable reality. 2. "All relevant executive departments and agencies shall utilize all applicable authorities to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle any and all illegal operations" is … nothing, because that's what federal law enforcement is already charged with.
- odo1242 1y agoAlso, Antifa is the name of a political ideology, not any particular organization.
- fufxufxutc 1y ago[flagged]
- Gigachad 1y agoMy observation is it's not even a full ideology. More of just a term and symbology to describe being against fascism.
- xnx 1y agoExactly. It's like calling feminism a terror organization (at the risk of giving them the idea).
- r721 1y agoReminds me of Russia: >Russia outlaws ‘international LGBT public movement’ as extremist https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/russia-supreme-court-outlaws-lgbt-movement https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/russia-supreme... >Russia’s top court bans nonexistent ‘Satanist movement’ https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-supreme-court-bans-satanist-movement-labeling-extremist/ https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-supreme-court-bans-sa...
- cloverich 1y ago
- jawns 1y agoThe most troubling aspect of this EO is that Antifa is not an actual organization, nor even a centrally organized movement. It doesn't have a recognized leader, nor does it have a cohesive or consistent ideology. In short, it's not an it. True, there are groups that have claimed to be anti-fascist and have protested the administration's actions. But much of this activity has been spontaneous rather than organized. The word "Antifa" is more of a derogatory term from the right than a term used by an organized group with countable members. Because of the fuzziness of what Antifa actually is and who counts as a member, this EO gives the federal government the ability to label people as domestic terrorists using a very broad definition. Given this administration's habit of pushing the bounds of its interpretive authority, I worry that this will have a chilling effect on protected political speech and protest.
- overboard2 1y agohttps://www.rosecityantifa.org/ https://www.rosecityantifa.org/ Can you notify them that they don't exist?
- khazhoux 1y agoFair, but still this isn’t a local chapter of a national Antifa organization. So it raises the question: is every local group that calls themselves “Antifa” now subject to investigation for domestic terrorism?
- cmxch 1y agoKind of hard to argue against actual examples of said ideology being implemented.
- myvoiceismypass 1y agoOh, founded in 07, back when the current president was a democrat donating to democrat races. Interesting!
- baby 1y agoI got flagged yesterday for this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45327333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45327333 (Ask HN: Is America Going to Become an Autocracy?). I got advised to stop reading twitter, so I added it to my /etc/hosts file, but it seems like the current administration is doing everything to scare me away. I'm legitimately wondering if I should move away from the US now.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- instagib 1y agoTry traveling somewhere that has fair safety but low median wages. There are many in USA or many outside it. Certain countries people will not talk bad about their leaders for fear for their lives. Others are happy to talk to you and are paid $1 per hour or $1 per day. Maybe it can put some perspective on things.
- queenkjuul 1y agoHonestly if you're not a US citizen, it's probably best to leave. The current admin has proven they have no problem abusing even legal immigrants. Now that big tech et. al. have taken Trump's side, Democrats are showing they have no interest in getting in the way. Can't wait to be told to also stop reading Twitter (never have anyway) but like genuinely, once you see a legal resident deported illegally without due process, how could you feel safe as an immigrant? I really don't think i could
- mkfs 1y ago> I should move away from the US now. I don't think that's necessary, but it might give you some perspective. Perhaps you'll appreciate America more after spending some time away from her, and if not, "self-deportation" might ultimately prove to be of mutual benefit to the country and those most contemptuous of it.
- khazhoux 1y agoAs far as I know, Antifa is not a true, actual organization, but more of a rallying cry and a cause for people to self-identify with. I genuinely wonder if Trump (or rather, the top people around him) understand full and well that it is not an organization… If they think it is an actual organization, then they’re confused and acting based on memes. It would be incompetence backed by the full force of the US government. If they know it’s not an actual organization, then this is a ruse to slap federal prison time on protesters, if they’ve ever liked a blog post calling for the dismantling of fascism, etc.
- blooalien 1y ago> "incompetence backed by the full force of the US government" Yeah, that pretty much describes U.S.A. 2025-20?? - R.I.P.
- queenkjuul 1y agoThey know, and it's an excuse to put protestors in prison.
- gnabgib 1y agoDiscussion (114 points, 5 days ago, 106 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45283795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45283795
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- baby 1y agowhy was it flagged?
- lenzm 1y ago[flagged]
- AnimalMuppet 1y agoDude. Not everybody who flags political posts on HN is a fascist. Some are just really tired of the amount of political posts here. A lot of people don't have any problem saying that this is wrong. They just don't want the discussion to be here. They aren't fascists, or working on behalf of fascists. They just want HN to not be the all-politics-all-the-time channel that it seems to threaten to become.
- sgnelson 1y agoMy thing is this: You don't have to read it. You don't have to read the article and you don't have to read the comments. HN is just about the simplest aggregator website there is. Simply scroll down two lines and you're onto the next story. But instead of ignoring it, there is very much a contingent of people on this website that would rather that no one discuss these controversial topics. Because you don't simply want to ignore it, you want others from seeing it. As afterall, there is the hide command, which you could also use. But I (and I believe others) think that these sorts of discussions are important, and people around here want to discuss them. Not all "political" stories are the same. This isn't "politics," where we're talking about taxes, or which minor laws are being passed, who's winning in what political race. This is about the future of American Democracy being gutted before our very eyes. But it's okay, you just go ahead and keep your eyes closed. I'm sure it'll all just go away because you want to ignore it.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dzhiurgis 1y ago[flagged]
- pacomerh 1y agoThis page is basically saying they're taking your rights away. And you're ok with it?
- dzhiurgis 1y ago[flagged]
- pacomerh 1y agoCivil liberties, freedom of expression and press, freedom of association, freedom of movement, right to fair and free elections, legal and personal security rights, rule of law, judicial independence, protection from arbitrary detention and torture, privacy, economic and social rights, property rights, equality, effects on activists and the general population, transnational repression. these rights. Not sure what in the world you're talking about
- stubish 1y agoThe thing about terrorists is you can shoot live bullets at protesting terrorists and hold survivors in offshore military prisons, and anyone with a problem with this are supporting terrorism. It might even become legal.
- omnimus 1y agoAnd indeed anybody protesting has to be antifa otherwise why else would they protest?
- pacomerh 1y agoPretty sad to see this. Everyone in the US should be against fascism if they wanted a prosperous life. They're weaponizing the word to get what they want. Its absolute madness. Pretty sad to see this country fall into this state.
- mcv 1y agoAntifa is just short for Anti-Fascist. Their only goal is stopping fascism. If you see them as a threat, you're saying that you are a fascist. Also, it's not an organisation, but a mindset that all people who oppose fascism share. And most of those oppose fascism in peaceful ways that don't hurt anyone.
- 28304283409234 1y ago[flagged]
- burnt-resistor 1y agoThe new McCarthyism by metaphorically blaming bogeyman and outlawing them. And it's no coincidence that Trump's mentor, Ray Cohn, was an active participant in the Army–McCarthy hearings where lives were destroyed for ideological "purification".
- lesser-shadow 1y ago[flagged]
- IT4MD 1y agoCan't post this here, or Dang will show up and shit on your opinions. He does not allow politic posts.
- nh23423fefe 1y agohackers dont find this interesting
- maroon_unperson 1y agoDang is a great moderator, but I think it's a reach to say hackers don't find this interesting, it's not getting upvotes from nowhere. Hackers have a natural curiosity for the world, and that includes politics too. From phrack and cult of the dead cow, to chaos computer club and even pg's own writings, none can be described as completely a-political. The ability for an increasingly authoritarian leader to wave a hand and ban a mostly exaggerated threat is exactly the type of dystopia hackers have been writing about for years. I may not see it that way but surely that is interesting and worth discussing! The flagging and flame war suppression mechanisms do us a disservice by silencing these topics and relegating them to an unseen graveyard.
- 9762451298 1y ago[flagged]