5 ms·

Trump admin links autism and Tylenol ingredient use during pregnancy

36 points by hmm37 1y ago

hmm37 1y ago
Also on Monday, the FDA approved a lesser-known drug, leucovorin, as a treatment for autism, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services Administrator Dr. Mehmet Oz said during the briefing.
- bmau5 1y ago
  which is the folinic acid, an active form of folate
  - rolph 1y ago
    in other words, vitamin B9
  - ggm 1y ago
    Folate in pregnancy has been a thing forever. Folate reinforced foods, commonplace. Precisely because of neural tube development in pregnancy. I would add, across the period of time diagnosis of autism has risen, folate supplementation has been commonplace. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4933077/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4933077/ for example. I'm not an epidemiologist. I prefer advice on things to come with epidemiologists backing. I'm not getting a vibe if that's happening this news cycle.
- moogly 1y ago
  Also a peddler of supplements. Does he sell folinic acid perhaps?
  - ncallaway 1y ago
    Dr. Oz held a significant investment in iHerb. iHerb does sell folinic acid: https://www.iherb.com/pr/california-gold-nutrition-folinic-acid-alcohol-free-1-fl-oz-30-ml/69309 https://www.iherb.com/pr/california-gold-nutrition-folinic-a...
bmau5 1y ago
Why they picked something that has extremely compelling evidence to the contrary, rather than just saying "ultraprocessed foods" or older parenting age is beyond me. I don't see how this serves their agenda, and clearly isn't grounded in any facts
- moogly 1y ago
  Don't underestimate these horrid men's wish to control women and their bodies. "Tough it out", was this clown's words.
  - bmau5 1y ago
    I hear you. I just have a hard time believing he does anything without some direct tie back to his bank account. If we find he has short positions in Kenvue it'll make more sense to me.
    - xp84 1y ago
      That would certainly fit the pattern we've seen. I'm always floored by how small the grifts are. Like, if I were a 'morally flexible' President and had at least a billion dollars already, I sure wouldn't consider being influenced by 9 figures or less. Come talk to me when it's going to enrich my 'team' by at least 10 billion. For anything less than that I'd be determined to appear straight as an arrow. For Trump you can approve a new golf course for him and he'll just executive order whatever you want.
      - anigbrowl 1y ago
        For one thing, he knows he's more or less untouchable legally and politically. The American establishment no longer has the will to police itself properly due to institutional capture. For another, directe enrichment isn't the only incentive for corruption. It also corrupts the giver, and having control over lots of small and medium people who are already corrupted is worth more than the up front cash value.
    - moogly 1y ago
jjgreen 1y ago
Obviously they're doing evermore stupid things waiting for someone to say "Naaah!" and then everyone has a laugh and slaps each-other on the back and agrees it was a good joke. But no-one has.
legitster 1y ago
RFK Jr likes to make nice sounding claims about "Gold standard science", but he is probably the worst interpreters of scientific data. He will latch onto any study made by random weirdos so long as they write a interesting abstract. It doesn't matter the sample size or methodology or whatever. Even if the study is retracted or disowned by it's original authors, he will go out of the way to frame opposition as industry bias. His worldview in turn is actually very simple: - Initial shocking study with contrarian finding = good and groundbreaking. - Replication study = cover-up job by industry insiders. In this way, he is almost the Replication crisis made manifest - if he has his way, he will try to undo nearly all of the studies that have any sort of government funding. And if he pulls on this thread long enough, there is no reason to believe he wouldn't consider all medical research as invalid.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  It makes you wonder if he would refuse science if it could save his life.
  - jimt1234 1y ago
    The ghost of Herman Cain has entered the chat.
- JohnFen 1y ago
  > He will latch onto any study made by random weirdos so long as they write a interesting abstract. Well, not any study. He'll latch on to the ones that support the things he wants to be true.
tzs 1y ago
This is way better than I expected. RFK Jr has long suggested that WiFi and cellular radio may be significant factor in autism (and ADHD, allergies, and obesity). I was expecting then that the big autism announcement would either be that or his old fallback of vaccines. At least with Tylenol there is (if I correctly understood what I heard about this for the 2-3 minutes I had NPR on while driving to the AM/PM for a snack) there is a correlation between autism and use of Tylenol during pregnancy. The discussion on NPR, which included a researcher who wrote a paper that the government is basing this on I believe, said that there is no evidence that there is causality here. Nearly everyone in the field thinks that it is far more likely that whatever is causing autism might also increase the likelihood of pain during pregnancy, and so the correlation with Tylenol is simply because those mothers turn to a pain reducing drug and Tylenol is the most commonly recommended drug for that. Also, Trump managed to get through this without somehow finding a way to directly blame autism on the left/Democrats, so that too is way better than I expected.
- barbacoa 1y ago
  There is also no direct evidence that smoking causes lung cancer. There are no randomized controlled trials to establishing smoking is the cause. Nor could we ever feasibly run one. All we know is there is very strongly correlation.
  - tzs 1y ago
    You've overlooked animal studies. There are numerous direct studies with animals exposed to cigarette smoke or even taught to smoke that have shown more than just correlation. You've also overlooked that we can see what chemicals smoking exposes lung cells to, and we can expose cultured lung cells in the lab to those chemicals and see that they are carcinogenic.
- UncleMeat 1y ago
  Trump is going on TV and saying that they don't have autism in cuba because they are too poor to afford tylenol and that we shouldn't have mmr vaccines because there is "too much liquid" in them. It is a clown show.
ModernMech 1y ago
My mom just texted me “Just thought I’d let you know I did not take Tylenol alcohol or drink coffee during pregnancy” Somehow I still ended up autistic.
- OutOfHere 1y ago
  Did she take any other neurological medicines during pregnancy (more than just once or twice)? I don't think drinking coffee is an issue.
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    No. FWIW the male line on my father's side is mostly autistic. Me, my dad, my grandfather, and one of my 3 uncles. So it's not anything my mom did.
jimt1234 1y ago
So, once women stop taking Tylenol during pregnancy, I suppose 5 to 10 years later we'll see autism rates in children drop off. Unlikely.
- lawn 1y ago
  They'll just stop diagnosing autism and celebrate the low rates.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
treetalker 1y ago
At the proclamation, both Trump and Kennedy were the very picture of health and paragons of wellbeing, were they not? And who would doubt the sage medical advice of DJT, who so authoritatively pronounced acetaminophen?

36 points by hmm37 1y ago

Also on Monday, the FDA approved a lesser-known drug, leucovorin, as a treatment for autism, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services Administrator Dr. Mehmet Oz said during the briefing.

bmau5 1y ago
which is the folinic acid, an active form of folate
- rolph 1y ago
  in other words, vitamin B9
- ggm 1y ago
  Folate in pregnancy has been a thing forever. Folate reinforced foods, commonplace. Precisely because of neural tube development in pregnancy. I would add, across the period of time diagnosis of autism has risen, folate supplementation has been commonplace. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4933077/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4933077/ for example. I'm not an epidemiologist. I prefer advice on things to come with epidemiologists backing. I'm not getting a vibe if that's happening this news cycle.
moogly 1y ago
Also a peddler of supplements. Does he sell folinic acid perhaps?
- ncallaway 1y ago
  Dr. Oz held a significant investment in iHerb. iHerb does sell folinic acid: https://www.iherb.com/pr/california-gold-nutrition-folinic-acid-alcohol-free-1-fl-oz-30-ml/69309 https://www.iherb.com/pr/california-gold-nutrition-folinic-a...

bmau5 1y ago

Why they picked something that has extremely compelling evidence to the contrary, rather than just saying "ultraprocessed foods" or older parenting age is beyond me. I don't see how this serves their agenda, and clearly isn't grounded in any facts

moogly 1y ago
Don't underestimate these horrid men's wish to control women and their bodies. "Tough it out", was this clown's words.
- bmau5 1y ago
  I hear you. I just have a hard time believing he does anything without some direct tie back to his bank account. If we find he has short positions in Kenvue it'll make more sense to me.
  - xp84 1y ago
    That would certainly fit the pattern we've seen. I'm always floored by how small the grifts are. Like, if I were a 'morally flexible' President and had at least a billion dollars already, I sure wouldn't consider being influenced by 9 figures or less. Come talk to me when it's going to enrich my 'team' by at least 10 billion. For anything less than that I'd be determined to appear straight as an arrow. For Trump you can approve a new golf course for him and he'll just executive order whatever you want.
    - anigbrowl 1y ago
      For one thing, he knows he's more or less untouchable legally and politically. The American establishment no longer has the will to police itself properly due to institutional capture. For another, directe enrichment isn't the only incentive for corruption. It also corrupts the giver, and having control over lots of small and medium people who are already corrupted is worth more than the up front cash value.
  - moogly 1y ago

jjgreen 1y ago

Obviously they're doing evermore stupid things waiting for someone to say "Naaah!" and then everyone has a laugh and slaps each-other on the back and agrees it was a good joke. But no-one has.

legitster 1y ago

RFK Jr likes to make nice sounding claims about "Gold standard science", but he is probably the worst interpreters of scientific data. He will latch onto any study made by random weirdos so long as they write a interesting abstract. It doesn't matter the sample size or methodology or whatever. Even if the study is retracted or disowned by it's original authors, he will go out of the way to frame opposition as industry bias. His worldview in turn is actually very simple: - Initial shocking study with contrarian finding = good and groundbreaking. - Replication study = cover-up job by industry insiders. In this way, he is almost the Replication crisis made manifest - if he has his way, he will try to undo nearly all of the studies that have any sort of government funding. And if he pulls on this thread long enough, there is no reason to believe he wouldn't consider all medical research as invalid.

jacquesm 1y ago
It makes you wonder if he would refuse science if it could save his life.
- jimt1234 1y ago
  The ghost of Herman Cain has entered the chat.
JohnFen 1y ago
> He will latch onto any study made by random weirdos so long as they write a interesting abstract. Well, not any study. He'll latch on to the ones that support the things he wants to be true.

tzs 1y ago

This is way better than I expected. RFK Jr has long suggested that WiFi and cellular radio may be significant factor in autism (and ADHD, allergies, and obesity). I was expecting then that the big autism announcement would either be that or his old fallback of vaccines. At least with Tylenol there is (if I correctly understood what I heard about this for the 2-3 minutes I had NPR on while driving to the AM/PM for a snack) there is a correlation between autism and use of Tylenol during pregnancy. The discussion on NPR, which included a researcher who wrote a paper that the government is basing this on I believe, said that there is no evidence that there is causality here. Nearly everyone in the field thinks that it is far more likely that whatever is causing autism might also increase the likelihood of pain during pregnancy, and so the correlation with Tylenol is simply because those mothers turn to a pain reducing drug and Tylenol is the most commonly recommended drug for that. Also, Trump managed to get through this without somehow finding a way to directly blame autism on the left/Democrats, so that too is way better than I expected.

barbacoa 1y ago
There is also no direct evidence that smoking causes lung cancer. There are no randomized controlled trials to establishing smoking is the cause. Nor could we ever feasibly run one. All we know is there is very strongly correlation.
- tzs 1y ago
  You've overlooked animal studies. There are numerous direct studies with animals exposed to cigarette smoke or even taught to smoke that have shown more than just correlation. You've also overlooked that we can see what chemicals smoking exposes lung cells to, and we can expose cultured lung cells in the lab to those chemicals and see that they are carcinogenic.
UncleMeat 1y ago
Trump is going on TV and saying that they don't have autism in cuba because they are too poor to afford tylenol and that we shouldn't have mmr vaccines because there is "too much liquid" in them. It is a clown show.

ModernMech 1y ago

My mom just texted me “Just thought I’d let you know I did not take Tylenol alcohol or drink coffee during pregnancy” Somehow I still ended up autistic.

OutOfHere 1y ago
Did she take any other neurological medicines during pregnancy (more than just once or twice)? I don't think drinking coffee is an issue.
- ModernMech 1y ago
  No. FWIW the male line on my father's side is mostly autistic. Me, my dad, my grandfather, and one of my 3 uncles. So it's not anything my mom did.

jimt1234 1y ago

So, once women stop taking Tylenol during pregnancy, I suppose 5 to 10 years later we'll see autism rates in children drop off. Unlikely.

lawn 1y ago
They'll just stop diagnosing autism and celebrate the low rates.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

treetalker 1y ago

At the proclamation, both Trump and Kennedy were the very picture of health and paragons of wellbeing, were they not? And who would doubt the sage medical advice of DJT, who so authoritatively pronounced acetaminophen?