7 ms·

Thanks - that was helpful indeed. From there, I also found the linked post by Tekin Süleyman ( https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem

by fwip 1y ago

Thanks - that was helpful indeed. From there, I also found the linked post by Tekin Süleyman ( https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-pro... ) to be informative.

McGlockenshire 1y ago
Wow! When that one DHH blog went around the other day, I didn't actually pay attention to who the author was. All I saw was yet another bigoted rant and just skimmed it and rolled my eyes. (e: here it is to save people the effort: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 ) I should not have skimmed it. From your link: > In the same post he praises Tommy Robinson (actual name Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon), a right-wing agitator with several convictions for violent offences and a long history of association with far-right groups such as the English Defence League and the British Nationalist Party. He then goes on to describe those that attended last weekend’s far-right rally in London as “perfectly normal, peaceful Brits” protesting against the “demographic nightmare” that has enveloped London, despite the violence and disorder they caused. > To all of that he ads a dash of Islamophobia, citing “Pakistani rape gangs” as one of the reasons for the unrest, repeating a weaponised trope borne from a long since discredited report from the Quilliam Foundation, an organisation with ties to both the the US Tea Party, and Tommy Robinson himself. This is ... disqualifying. That's the best word I can summon here to express my dismay. This is a crossed line. Absolutely nutso. edit2: Uh wow I really should not have skimmed it. Here's one paragraph from DHH's blog itself: > Which brings us back to Robinson's powerful march yesterday. The banner said "March for Freedom", and focused as much on that now distant-to-the-Brits concept of free speech, as it did on restoring national pride. And for good reason! The totalitarian descent into censorious darkness in Britain has been as swift as its demographic shift. Well, if that doesn't speak volumes as to DHH's values, I don't know what does.
- ethagnawl 1y ago
  ... and this is the guy whose Linux "distro" Cloudflare has just announced funding for.
  - bigiain 1y ago
    Not all _that_ surprising. From where I see things, pretty much every time you see "Cloudflare" and "free speech" in the same sentence, it always end up being about Cloudflare supporting free speech for nazis or white supremacists. DHH's racist and xenophobic views are totally on-brand for them.
  - aquariusDue 1y ago
    Yeah, it was funny the first time a YouTuber[0] did something like that but now I feel like the joke got out of hand a bit, I blame the uptrend of opinionated configs to turn code editors into bona fide IDEs[1][2][3] for this. Welp, looking forward to the holy wars between people running different influencers' configs five years from now. Who knows, maybe we'll see premium versions of those too. [0] DistroTube which maintains DTOS, https://distro.tube/dtos/ https://distro.tube/dtos/ [1] LunarVim [2] AstroVim [3] Doom Emacs
- cratermoon 1y ago
  He makes his position clear enough in the second paragraph, for those who know how to read between the lines. "London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits."
- vr46 1y ago
  OMFG This post is full of outright nonsense. I was in Central London last Saturday and watched a lot of it go down, before heading to Islington and then catching the last dregs of the crowd nearer Euston and chatting in the pub with some of them. As a "native Brit" and "native Londoner" that DHH wouldn't recognise as such, he can absolutely do one.
- scuff3d 1y ago
  2025 has been wild but DHH outing himself as a crazy racist was definitely not something I was expecting...
  - simianparrot 1y ago
    If he’s a crazy racist, what would you call an actual racist?
    - scuff3d 1y ago
      The venn diagram of actual racists and crazy racists is a circle.
      - simianparrot 1y ago
        So if I understand correctly, people want a state for the Palestinian people. But they do not accept that people want a state for the Danish people. Is that it?
        pjc50 1y ago
        Ethnostates are a terrible idea regardless of whose ethnicity we're talking about, because they can only be maintained by violence. The state of Palestine is an answer to the question of "what nationality do the residents of Gaza and the West Bank have?"
        maleldil 1y ago
        "People" have differing opinions, but the one I mostly see from the left is that they want Palestinians to live in the land they owned before Israeli colonisers invaded it and forced them to relocate to subhuman conditions. What I haven't seen is the desire to expel the Israelis currently living there, as long as they agree to let the Palestinians lead a decent life.
        kgwgk 1y ago
        You have never seen the slogan “from the river to the sea”? https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP_Dec23_KeyResults.pdf https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP... Do you think that the long-term answer to the Israel-Palestinian dispute is for Arab states to absorb the Palestinians, for there to be two states, Israel and Palestine, or for Israel to be ended and given to Hamas and the Palestinians? 51% in the 18-24 group chose the third option.
- simianparrot 1y ago
  As a fellow Scandinavian, DHH is just writing what the vast majority of us think. And it isn’t racist. That word is being misused until it soon has no value left; you sure you want that?
  - BoredPositron 1y ago
    What's the right use for the word and the value of it in your mind? You are commenting in circles in this thread and you could clarify it easily.
  - fredrikholm 1y ago
    I'm happy to say that ~80% of Sweden and Norway don't vote for right wing populist parties like SD and Fremskrittspartiet, so "vast majority of us" might be a bit of a stretch.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - simianparrot 1y ago
      That's a misrepresentation of statistics though. FRP is the second largest party this election, with 23,8% of votes, only second to AP who got 28%. But many people won't vote based on the immigration issues, because so far, other issues are more pressing. But my point was that I am absolutely sure the majority of Norwegians _want Norway to remain a country that retains its cultural history_ while not being exclusive to one ethnic group. It's about retaining a majority. I don't understand why that sentiment is so problematic here on HN, because simultaneously people are clamoring for a Palestinian state for the Palestinian people. Why can't Norway have a Norwegian state for the Norwegian people? Or Denmark? Or the UK?
      - fredrikholm 1y ago
        > That's a misrepresentation of statistics though. I can't speak for Norway, but in Sweden the only party worth keeping an eye on that adheres to the usual combination of pro-Russia, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant, anti-EU rhetoric etc is Sverigedemokraterna (formerly Bevara Sverige Svenskt, a party based solely on the idea of an ethnostate). They're hovering around 20%. > But my point was that I am absolutely sure the majority of Norwegians _want Norway to remain a country that retains its cultural history_ while not being exclusive to one ethnic group. It's about retaining a majority. Is the existence of history dependent on the ethnicity of the person reading it? I'm sure you've met non-native people who are in all other respects very much Norwegian. Unless you mean to imply that culture is constrained to genetics. I deeply hope that that is not what you meant. > I don't understand why that sentiment is so problematic here on HN, because simultaneously people are clamoring for a Palestinian state for the Palestinian people. How many Norwegian cities were leveled by bombs this year? How many were murdered by foreign military? > Why can't Norway have a Norwegian state for the Norwegian people? Or Denmark? Or the UK? They do. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK All fully functioning sovereign states, all internationally recognized by their peers and enemies alike.
- kgwgk 1y ago
  > To all of that he ads a dash of Islamophobia, citing “Pakistani rape gangs” as one of the reasons for the unrest, repeating a weaponised trope borne from a long since discredited report Were independent inquiries also repeating weaponised tropes from long since discredited reports? “By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue. Some councillors seemed to think it was a one-off problem, which they hoped would go away. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.” https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-...
  - pjc50 1y ago
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/29/officer-raped-rotherham-grooming-gang-victim-in-police-car/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/29/officer-raped-ro... The ultimate problems lie in the police: they are generally terrible at handling rape cases, and in this case there are claims that they were actively complicit in some of the rapes. Using the actions of some members of an ethnic minority to justify .. well, any action against people who were not actually personally involved, is textbook discrimination.
forgingahead 1y ago
Tekin's conclusion: "it will send a clear message to the wider Ruby community (and those who may be considering joining it) that the majority does not stand with DHH and his toxic views." He is going to be ultra surprised to learn what the majority thinks and how it's not what he thinks it is.
- em-bee 1y ago
  what does the majority think then according to you?
  - schainks 1y ago
    Additional context — DHH's latest blog post: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 Using your personal brand to espouse the values of ethnonationalism fundamentally serves the capital class wishing to divide and exploit social order among those who labor. This is so rich, coming from the guy who literally created a tool that increases the value of labor. So, if I had to guess, the smart, critical thinkers in the _global_ Ruby community might find this whole situation reeks. If I were an immigrant to the UK and a Rails developer, and DHH is getting re-platformed while saying crazy stuff like this, I would think twice about my career choices going forward — Or, push the Ruby community not to stand with a garbage attitude like this, even if from a BDFL-type personality. I _invested_ my life into promoting the use of your tool, while you disparage me based on skin color and country of origin for the sake of some 'ye olde country' vibefest? Does DHH even know where his principles lie?
rramon 1y ago
Tekin, what makes a Turk less white than a Greek or Spaniard? If it's cultural (religion, music/sports related subcultures and codes) then it's chosen. Nobody can force you into a subculture in the West. As soon as you turn 18 you can essentially do what you want, most likely even way before that. You can chose your subculture, how you dress, style your hair, talk and are read by the mainstream society. Actual racists go by skin color and ignore your cultural choices, fuck them.
- ____mr____ 1y ago
  Not really, racists often include ethnic features such as hair texture or even nose shape within their criteria for racial exclusion. While in certain cultural contexts Turks may be read as white, within Europe there is a history of excluding them from whiteness and presenting them as a threat to European culture, mostly due to Islamophobia
  - kgwgk 1y ago
    The last paragraph is funny because Turks themselves use the expression White Turks to refer to the modern/secular/Western (as opposed to the Black Turks, conservative/Islamist).
  - rramon 1y ago
    Ethnic features = things you can nothing for, same category as skin color. I was talking about the culture you chose and the stereotypes that go along with it. Stereotypes override ethnic features unless you actually deal with real racists. DHH might not be street smart enough (like most people in tech) to see through those stereotypes on the streets of London.
    - ____mr____ 1y ago
      I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying. You start your original comment by asking what makes Turks non white which I answered, and from what I understand you believe that choosing to participate in a culture from the diaspora you are a part of means that you have to bear the burden of the stereotypes about that culture, even if they are racist in nature? And furthermore, you believe that people that believe these stereotypes are not real racists because real racists only care about skin color? Again, I could be misunderstanding, but I don't think that you need to only care about skin color to be racist. I think that DHH's anxieties about replacement of naitives being mostly focused on MENA people feels like a pretty clear sign he believes that non European (aka non white) immigrants are a problem, which to me, is racist.

by fwip 1y ago

McGlockenshire 1y ago

Wow! When that one DHH blog went around the other day, I didn't actually pay attention to who the author was. All I saw was yet another bigoted rant and just skimmed it and rolled my eyes. (e: here it is to save people the effort: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 ) I should not have skimmed it. From your link: > In the same post he praises Tommy Robinson (actual name Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon), a right-wing agitator with several convictions for violent offences and a long history of association with far-right groups such as the English Defence League and the British Nationalist Party. He then goes on to describe those that attended last weekend’s far-right rally in London as “perfectly normal, peaceful Brits” protesting against the “demographic nightmare” that has enveloped London, despite the violence and disorder they caused. > To all of that he ads a dash of Islamophobia, citing “Pakistani rape gangs” as one of the reasons for the unrest, repeating a weaponised trope borne from a long since discredited report from the Quilliam Foundation, an organisation with ties to both the the US Tea Party, and Tommy Robinson himself. This is ... disqualifying. That's the best word I can summon here to express my dismay. This is a crossed line. Absolutely nutso. edit2: Uh wow I really should not have skimmed it. Here's one paragraph from DHH's blog itself: > Which brings us back to Robinson's powerful march yesterday. The banner said "March for Freedom", and focused as much on that now distant-to-the-Brits concept of free speech, as it did on restoring national pride. And for good reason! The totalitarian descent into censorious darkness in Britain has been as swift as its demographic shift. Well, if that doesn't speak volumes as to DHH's values, I don't know what does.

ethagnawl 1y ago
... and this is the guy whose Linux "distro" Cloudflare has just announced funding for.
- bigiain 1y ago
  Not all _that_ surprising. From where I see things, pretty much every time you see "Cloudflare" and "free speech" in the same sentence, it always end up being about Cloudflare supporting free speech for nazis or white supremacists. DHH's racist and xenophobic views are totally on-brand for them.
- aquariusDue 1y ago
  Yeah, it was funny the first time a YouTuber[0] did something like that but now I feel like the joke got out of hand a bit, I blame the uptrend of opinionated configs to turn code editors into bona fide IDEs[1][2][3] for this. Welp, looking forward to the holy wars between people running different influencers' configs five years from now. Who knows, maybe we'll see premium versions of those too. [0] DistroTube which maintains DTOS, https://distro.tube/dtos/ https://distro.tube/dtos/ [1] LunarVim [2] AstroVim [3] Doom Emacs
cratermoon 1y ago
He makes his position clear enough in the second paragraph, for those who know how to read between the lines. "London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits."
vr46 1y ago
OMFG This post is full of outright nonsense. I was in Central London last Saturday and watched a lot of it go down, before heading to Islington and then catching the last dregs of the crowd nearer Euston and chatting in the pub with some of them. As a "native Brit" and "native Londoner" that DHH wouldn't recognise as such, he can absolutely do one.
scuff3d 1y ago
2025 has been wild but DHH outing himself as a crazy racist was definitely not something I was expecting...
- simianparrot 1y ago
  If he’s a crazy racist, what would you call an actual racist?
  - scuff3d 1y ago
    The venn diagram of actual racists and crazy racists is a circle.
    - simianparrot 1y ago
      So if I understand correctly, people want a state for the Palestinian people. But they do not accept that people want a state for the Danish people. Is that it?
      - pjc50 1y ago
        Ethnostates are a terrible idea regardless of whose ethnicity we're talking about, because they can only be maintained by violence. The state of Palestine is an answer to the question of "what nationality do the residents of Gaza and the West Bank have?"
      - maleldil 1y ago
        "People" have differing opinions, but the one I mostly see from the left is that they want Palestinians to live in the land they owned before Israeli colonisers invaded it and forced them to relocate to subhuman conditions. What I haven't seen is the desire to expel the Israelis currently living there, as long as they agree to let the Palestinians lead a decent life.
        kgwgk 1y ago
        You have never seen the slogan “from the river to the sea”? https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP_Dec23_KeyResults.pdf https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP... Do you think that the long-term answer to the Israel-Palestinian dispute is for Arab states to absorb the Palestinians, for there to be two states, Israel and Palestine, or for Israel to be ended and given to Hamas and the Palestinians? 51% in the 18-24 group chose the third option.
simianparrot 1y ago
As a fellow Scandinavian, DHH is just writing what the vast majority of us think. And it isn’t racist. That word is being misused until it soon has no value left; you sure you want that?
- BoredPositron 1y ago
  What's the right use for the word and the value of it in your mind? You are commenting in circles in this thread and you could clarify it easily.
- fredrikholm 1y ago
  I'm happy to say that ~80% of Sweden and Norway don't vote for right wing populist parties like SD and Fremskrittspartiet, so "vast majority of us" might be a bit of a stretch.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - simianparrot 1y ago
    That's a misrepresentation of statistics though. FRP is the second largest party this election, with 23,8% of votes, only second to AP who got 28%. But many people won't vote based on the immigration issues, because so far, other issues are more pressing. But my point was that I am absolutely sure the majority of Norwegians _want Norway to remain a country that retains its cultural history_ while not being exclusive to one ethnic group. It's about retaining a majority. I don't understand why that sentiment is so problematic here on HN, because simultaneously people are clamoring for a Palestinian state for the Palestinian people. Why can't Norway have a Norwegian state for the Norwegian people? Or Denmark? Or the UK?
    - fredrikholm 1y ago
      > That's a misrepresentation of statistics though. I can't speak for Norway, but in Sweden the only party worth keeping an eye on that adheres to the usual combination of pro-Russia, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant, anti-EU rhetoric etc is Sverigedemokraterna (formerly Bevara Sverige Svenskt, a party based solely on the idea of an ethnostate). They're hovering around 20%. > But my point was that I am absolutely sure the majority of Norwegians _want Norway to remain a country that retains its cultural history_ while not being exclusive to one ethnic group. It's about retaining a majority. Is the existence of history dependent on the ethnicity of the person reading it? I'm sure you've met non-native people who are in all other respects very much Norwegian. Unless you mean to imply that culture is constrained to genetics. I deeply hope that that is not what you meant. > I don't understand why that sentiment is so problematic here on HN, because simultaneously people are clamoring for a Palestinian state for the Palestinian people. How many Norwegian cities were leveled by bombs this year? How many were murdered by foreign military? > Why can't Norway have a Norwegian state for the Norwegian people? Or Denmark? Or the UK? They do. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK All fully functioning sovereign states, all internationally recognized by their peers and enemies alike.
kgwgk 1y ago
> To all of that he ads a dash of Islamophobia, citing “Pakistani rape gangs” as one of the reasons for the unrest, repeating a weaponised trope borne from a long since discredited report Were independent inquiries also repeating weaponised tropes from long since discredited reports? “By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue. Some councillors seemed to think it was a one-off problem, which they hoped would go away. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.” https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-...
- pjc50 1y ago
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/29/officer-raped-rotherham-grooming-gang-victim-in-police-car/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/29/officer-raped-ro... The ultimate problems lie in the police: they are generally terrible at handling rape cases, and in this case there are claims that they were actively complicit in some of the rapes. Using the actions of some members of an ethnic minority to justify .. well, any action against people who were not actually personally involved, is textbook discrimination.

forgingahead 1y ago

Tekin's conclusion: "it will send a clear message to the wider Ruby community (and those who may be considering joining it) that the majority does not stand with DHH and his toxic views." He is going to be ultra surprised to learn what the majority thinks and how it's not what he thinks it is.

em-bee 1y ago
what does the majority think then according to you?
- schainks 1y ago
  Additional context — DHH's latest blog post: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 Using your personal brand to espouse the values of ethnonationalism fundamentally serves the capital class wishing to divide and exploit social order among those who labor. This is so rich, coming from the guy who literally created a tool that increases the value of labor. So, if I had to guess, the smart, critical thinkers in the _global_ Ruby community might find this whole situation reeks. If I were an immigrant to the UK and a Rails developer, and DHH is getting re-platformed while saying crazy stuff like this, I would think twice about my career choices going forward — Or, push the Ruby community not to stand with a garbage attitude like this, even if from a BDFL-type personality. I _invested_ my life into promoting the use of your tool, while you disparage me based on skin color and country of origin for the sake of some 'ye olde country' vibefest? Does DHH even know where his principles lie?

rramon 1y ago

Tekin, what makes a Turk less white than a Greek or Spaniard? If it's cultural (religion, music/sports related subcultures and codes) then it's chosen. Nobody can force you into a subculture in the West. As soon as you turn 18 you can essentially do what you want, most likely even way before that. You can chose your subculture, how you dress, style your hair, talk and are read by the mainstream society. Actual racists go by skin color and ignore your cultural choices, fuck them.

____mr____ 1y ago
Not really, racists often include ethnic features such as hair texture or even nose shape within their criteria for racial exclusion. While in certain cultural contexts Turks may be read as white, within Europe there is a history of excluding them from whiteness and presenting them as a threat to European culture, mostly due to Islamophobia
- kgwgk 1y ago
  The last paragraph is funny because Turks themselves use the expression White Turks to refer to the modern/secular/Western (as opposed to the Black Turks, conservative/Islamist).
- rramon 1y ago
  Ethnic features = things you can nothing for, same category as skin color. I was talking about the culture you chose and the stereotypes that go along with it. Stereotypes override ethnic features unless you actually deal with real racists. DHH might not be street smart enough (like most people in tech) to see through those stereotypes on the streets of London.
  - ____mr____ 1y ago
    I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying. You start your original comment by asking what makes Turks non white which I answered, and from what I understand you believe that choosing to participate in a culture from the diaspora you are a part of means that you have to bear the burden of the stereotypes about that culture, even if they are racist in nature? And furthermore, you believe that people that believe these stereotypes are not real racists because real racists only care about skin color? Again, I could be misunderstanding, but I don't think that you need to only care about skin color to be racist. I think that DHH's anxieties about replacement of naitives being mostly focused on MENA people feels like a pretty clear sign he believes that non European (aka non white) immigrants are a problem, which to me, is racist.