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Apple doesn’t care. Look at how bad iTunes or iCloud or whatever is. Especially on windows. Their software is terrible. They focus mostly on what makes money. A

Apple doesn’t care. Look at how bad iTunes or iCloud or whatever is. Especially on windows. Their software is terrible. They focus mostly on what makes money. And the support is non existent. All you can do is shout in the forums but some Apple apologist will respond rudely or with some unhelpful generic tips that do nothing.

anthonypasq 1y ago
i mean in a way xcode is incredibly valuable product considering anyone who wants to publish to the app store (where they collect insane rent for zero effort) needs to interact with it.
- bmitc 1y ago
  Apple probably views the product as the privilege to develop and publish apps.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - marklubi 1y ago
    I can confirm this. Have a relative that works for Apple. Made the mistake of complaining in front of her about their take on sales (they make six-figures annually from my app). She went off on how much they give us (including Xcode) for the privilege of having an app on their phones. Still don't have a contact there. Would have thought I would at least get someone there to talk with if issues come up.
- em-bee 1y ago
  so it's the wrong incentive. apple has no need to make it better because people are forced to use it anyways.
christkv 1y ago
I once had a glimpse of their internal pages for the app store and music store about 7-8 years ago and the design was outdated in 1999
crossroadsguy 1y ago
I couldn't agree more - the not caring part. But then you should try to do an app in the Android code/build/test/publish ecosystem. As someone who had/has to use both os/dev ecosystems for work, I often wondered which one is worse, and what bothered me is that I couldn't conclude. So in this great duopoly, these two tech giants constantly compete to become more and more hostile and pathetic to both the users and the developers. > Apple apologist will respond rudely or with some unhelpful generic tips Aha. The "you are holding it wrong", "this is how the Lord intended it to behave", "buy a new .." … fruit company fan base phenomena. Apple's majority of buyers aren't their users or consumers; they are Apple fans and supporters. If Apple had consumers like Android, Linux, or Windows, either they would have fixed their act or been in the ground by now.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  > Apple's majority of buyers aren't their users or consumers; they are Apple fans and supporters. If Apple had consumers like Android, Linux, or Windows, either they would have fixed their act or been in the ground by now. Companies who develop these fandoms live life on easy mode. You can do anything you want, abuse customers, raise prices, make promises and never deliver on them, lock people into your ecosystem, and there will always be an army of white knights out there ready-at-the-keyboards, defending the company. I honestly don't know how people get to the point where their identity is so wrapped up in a single company that they wake up in the morning and say to themselves, I'm going to be a company apologist for free and respond rudely to people, even though the company doesn't and will never even know who I am!
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    They probably wake up the exact same way as the people who bring their toxic attitudes to Linux, open source projects, stack overflow-type sites, IRC/Discord, etc. Being a rude apologist for NixOS isn't actually morally superior to being a rude apologist for Apple.
    - exe34 1y ago
      > Being a rude apologist for NixOS isn't actually morally superior to being a rude apologist for Apple. no, but it is cheaper and feels morally superior!
scuff3d 1y ago
A while back I listlened to a podcast where Ted Bendixson talked about what a nightmare trying to build for IOS outside XCode was (he did a write up about it here https://tedbendixson.substack.com/p/the-horror-of-making-your-own-build https://tedbendixson.substack.com/p/the-horror-of-making-you...). At the time I assumed it was malicious on Apple's part, "we want you working in our ecosystem and if you won't we are going to make it absolutely miserable". After reading this maybe it really was just incompetence.

anthonypasq 1y ago

i mean in a way xcode is incredibly valuable product considering anyone who wants to publish to the app store (where they collect insane rent for zero effort) needs to interact with it.

bmitc 1y ago
Apple probably views the product as the privilege to develop and publish apps.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- marklubi 1y ago
  I can confirm this. Have a relative that works for Apple. Made the mistake of complaining in front of her about their take on sales (they make six-figures annually from my app). She went off on how much they give us (including Xcode) for the privilege of having an app on their phones. Still don't have a contact there. Would have thought I would at least get someone there to talk with if issues come up.
em-bee 1y ago
so it's the wrong incentive. apple has no need to make it better because people are forced to use it anyways.

christkv 1y ago

I once had a glimpse of their internal pages for the app store and music store about 7-8 years ago and the design was outdated in 1999

crossroadsguy 1y ago

I couldn't agree more - the not caring part. But then you should try to do an app in the Android code/build/test/publish ecosystem. As someone who had/has to use both os/dev ecosystems for work, I often wondered which one is worse, and what bothered me is that I couldn't conclude. So in this great duopoly, these two tech giants constantly compete to become more and more hostile and pathetic to both the users and the developers. > Apple apologist will respond rudely or with some unhelpful generic tips Aha. The "you are holding it wrong", "this is how the Lord intended it to behave", "buy a new .." … fruit company fan base phenomena. Apple's majority of buyers aren't their users or consumers; they are Apple fans and supporters. If Apple had consumers like Android, Linux, or Windows, either they would have fixed their act or been in the ground by now.

ryandrake 1y ago
> Apple's majority of buyers aren't their users or consumers; they are Apple fans and supporters. If Apple had consumers like Android, Linux, or Windows, either they would have fixed their act or been in the ground by now. Companies who develop these fandoms live life on easy mode. You can do anything you want, abuse customers, raise prices, make promises and never deliver on them, lock people into your ecosystem, and there will always be an army of white knights out there ready-at-the-keyboards, defending the company. I honestly don't know how people get to the point where their identity is so wrapped up in a single company that they wake up in the morning and say to themselves, I'm going to be a company apologist for free and respond rudely to people, even though the company doesn't and will never even know who I am!
- rkomorn 1y ago
  They probably wake up the exact same way as the people who bring their toxic attitudes to Linux, open source projects, stack overflow-type sites, IRC/Discord, etc. Being a rude apologist for NixOS isn't actually morally superior to being a rude apologist for Apple.
  - exe34 1y ago
    > Being a rude apologist for NixOS isn't actually morally superior to being a rude apologist for Apple. no, but it is cheaper and feels morally superior!

scuff3d 1y ago

A while back I listlened to a podcast where Ted Bendixson talked about what a nightmare trying to build for IOS outside XCode was (he did a write up about it here https://tedbendixson.substack.com/p/the-horror-of-making-your-own-build https://tedbendixson.substack.com/p/the-horror-of-making-you...). At the time I assumed it was malicious on Apple's part, "we want you working in our ecosystem and if you won't we are going to make it absolutely miserable". After reading this maybe it really was just incompetence.