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Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS. That definitely makes it a less desirable desktop OS. Today when you generate a PDF from you own c

by seec 1y ago

Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS. That definitely makes it a less desirable desktop OS. Today when you generate a PDF from you own content (from Apple Notes app) you are asked about opening links you click on. I thought that they were surely joking and there would be a way to disable that behavior. But no, this is intended and there is no way to disable that. It makes the Preview app a pain in the ass as a PDF reader, which means you have to replace it and begs the question of even using Apple software in the first place. The answer is that there are fewer and fewer reasons. I mean if you are OK feeling like a child biking around on a cycle with training wheels while an overbearing parent keeps nagging you, it might be for you. Otherwise, the experience is really more like a prison/walled garden and the funny thing is that you paid for it !

mmmlinux 1y ago
last time i tried to set up a new android phone. the built in phone app asked me permissions to use the built in contacts app. people complain if the apps don't all have fine grained permissions. and then complain when they have to agree to stuff all the time. and then complain they got "hacked". damned if you do, damned if you don't.
- DangitBobby 1y ago
  Implementation is the issue. They often forget your settings between updates. This is particularly bad on MacOS. MacOS updates and app updates both require me to re-grant permissions for the nth time! Then there's the separate issue of must-have apps requesting permissions they have no business asking for and refusing to function correctly without, and other must-have apps abusing their access for purposes not strictly limited to in-app functionality.
- seec 1y ago
  Yes, permissions are horrid in all systems. In my opinion they are just a failure to design proper security without completely delegating the problem to the user. The funny thing is that since people who are subject to security problems will allow them regardless, defeating the entire purpose of the measures. Computer security is just a people problem; you can't solve it by child proofing stuff. Imagine a car that would prevent you going over the speed limit or ask permission every time you want to do so... But in that case, that's just beyond stupid, there is no permission for you to act on. They could have a per-document setting or an app level setting to allow opening links in PDFs without requiring the user to agree EVERY SINGLE TIME. On a document that was generated on the computer reading it. It's just complete incompetence.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    I agree. I am a power user. I want to be a power user. The OS (Void Linux) and its current state reflects that. If I wanted "childproofing" crap, I would have made it so for myself.
devinprater 1y ago
Which makes it even more important for Google to take accessibility seriously so that disabled people aren't stuck being the only ones that have a hard time switching from the play pin.
stronglikedan 1y ago
> I mean if you are OK feeling like a child biking around on a cycle with training wheels while an overbearing parent keeps nagging you, it might be for you. That's exactly why I encouraged my parents to get iPhones.
joz1-k 1y ago
> Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS. This is certainly happening. However, as long as you can still install your preferred browser with its own rendering engine or a different PDF reader, the situation isn't so bad.
- seec 1y ago
  Sure. For now. My issue is that I don't see the point of overpaying for Apple hardware if I have to swap all softwares because what they ship sucks.
- fair_enough 1y ago
  I'm getting great mileage out of LibreWolf on macOS (currently running Sequoia). I don't know who at Apple thought it was a great idea to permanently kill off ad blockers in Safari, but it was a terrible idea that made the world a worse place. Of course I say macOS is getting along fine for me, but I'm posting this comment from my workstation PC running Ubuntu 24.04. I'm pleasantly surprised by how much better my Linux experience is now than it was in 2013. It seems from my personal experience so far like a free desktop OS that can run a web browser and play games better than the paid alternatives is a solved problem. I find this machine much less frustrating than my M4 Macbook Air- many of the "security" behaviors are just annoyances.
bluedino 1y ago
> Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS. That definitely makes it a less desirable desktop OS. I mean this has been the conversation since the early days of Mac OS. I didn't get back to Mac until Snow Leopard but I remember the uproar over removing Java in 10.7
- seec 1y ago
  The situation today is not really comparable. Between the fully locked down hardware and many OS limitations it is much worse than it has ever been. I mean now you cannot open a 3rd party software without going into settings to allow opening, another regression on previously needing to right click, open. The next step is forbidding any unsigned software altogether. And finally, forbidding any software that doesn't come from their fully controlled App Store. It's really way beyond not shipping a software component directly in the system...
- dwaite 1y ago
  The removal of Java was perhaps the best example of people expecting Apple's obsolescence policy to be the same as Windows, and getting burned. There were large software vendors who had not yet started on a strategy around the deprecation of Java until it was removed from the OS. They didn't look like they even noticed it had been removed in betas and come up with a plan on what to tell customers.
nicce 1y ago
> Today when you generate a PDF from you own content (from Apple Notes app) you are asked about opening links you click on. Or they don't have any usability studies. A hard regression in efficiency in many places. E.g. Safari in iOS 26 forces you to do 50% more button presses. E.g. if you want to close a tab, you need to press one button more these days. Also one button press more to see the current tabs. These are likely the most used scenarios when you use the browser and they add one button press more?
- wpm 1y ago
  UI/UX seems more like something driven, at Apple and industry wide, by vibes and dogma than it is actual usability.
  - linguae 1y ago
    The sad thing is that Apple used to have people like Bill Atkinson (RIP), Larry Tesler (RIP), Bruce Tognazzini, and Don Norman who cared deeply about usability. What made the Mac special wasn’t its looks, especially in the pre-iMac and pre-Mac OS X days when the computers were mostly beige and the classic Mac OS UI was quite plain-looking (though still good-looking, IMO) compared to Mac OS X and later. Rather, what made the Mac special was its attentiveness to UI. Somewhere along the line Apple products became luxury goods that were appealing due to their visual design. I am particularly fond of Apple’s early 2000s design, with beautiful hardware such as the iMac G4 and the Power Mac G4 Cube running early Mac OS X. Apple still makes very visually-appealing hardware and software. However, I feel that under Tim Cook Apple has heavily leaned into its visual appeal at the expense of what made Apple great: the emphasis on usability.
- seec 1y ago
  Well I don't use Safari anymore. A few years ago, it stopped syncing passwords correctly with my iPhone and nothing I did could fix the problem (there is an issue in the backend on their part, maybe it has been fixed since). On top of that it didn't show favicon for bookmarks which was quite annoying and was slow/worked poorly with some web apps. So I went to Chrome, monopoly be damned. At the rate it's going, there isn't going to be a single app from Apple that I want to keep using, quite soon. By the way, the PDF export for Notes is ridiculously bad. It's an old note and there is some migration bug, all the links have the same target. I haven't bothered to investigate yet, but the plan is to stop using Notes as well, so whatever.

by seec 1y ago

mmmlinux 1y ago

last time i tried to set up a new android phone. the built in phone app asked me permissions to use the built in contacts app. people complain if the apps don't all have fine grained permissions. and then complain when they have to agree to stuff all the time. and then complain they got "hacked". damned if you do, damned if you don't.

DangitBobby 1y ago
Implementation is the issue. They often forget your settings between updates. This is particularly bad on MacOS. MacOS updates and app updates both require me to re-grant permissions for the nth time! Then there's the separate issue of must-have apps requesting permissions they have no business asking for and refusing to function correctly without, and other must-have apps abusing their access for purposes not strictly limited to in-app functionality.
seec 1y ago
Yes, permissions are horrid in all systems. In my opinion they are just a failure to design proper security without completely delegating the problem to the user. The funny thing is that since people who are subject to security problems will allow them regardless, defeating the entire purpose of the measures. Computer security is just a people problem; you can't solve it by child proofing stuff. Imagine a car that would prevent you going over the speed limit or ask permission every time you want to do so... But in that case, that's just beyond stupid, there is no permission for you to act on. They could have a per-document setting or an app level setting to allow opening links in PDFs without requiring the user to agree EVERY SINGLE TIME. On a document that was generated on the computer reading it. It's just complete incompetence.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  I agree. I am a power user. I want to be a power user. The OS (Void Linux) and its current state reflects that. If I wanted "childproofing" crap, I would have made it so for myself.

devinprater 1y ago

Which makes it even more important for Google to take accessibility seriously so that disabled people aren't stuck being the only ones that have a hard time switching from the play pin.

stronglikedan 1y ago

> I mean if you are OK feeling like a child biking around on a cycle with training wheels while an overbearing parent keeps nagging you, it might be for you. That's exactly why I encouraged my parents to get iPhones.

joz1-k 1y ago

> Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS. This is certainly happening. However, as long as you can still install your preferred browser with its own rendering engine or a different PDF reader, the situation isn't so bad.

seec 1y ago
Sure. For now. My issue is that I don't see the point of overpaying for Apple hardware if I have to swap all softwares because what they ship sucks.
fair_enough 1y ago
I'm getting great mileage out of LibreWolf on macOS (currently running Sequoia). I don't know who at Apple thought it was a great idea to permanently kill off ad blockers in Safari, but it was a terrible idea that made the world a worse place. Of course I say macOS is getting along fine for me, but I'm posting this comment from my workstation PC running Ubuntu 24.04. I'm pleasantly surprised by how much better my Linux experience is now than it was in 2013. It seems from my personal experience so far like a free desktop OS that can run a web browser and play games better than the paid alternatives is a solved problem. I find this machine much less frustrating than my M4 Macbook Air- many of the "security" behaviors are just annoyances.

bluedino 1y ago

> Apple is quietly but surely increasing its control on macOS. That definitely makes it a less desirable desktop OS. I mean this has been the conversation since the early days of Mac OS. I didn't get back to Mac until Snow Leopard but I remember the uproar over removing Java in 10.7

seec 1y ago
The situation today is not really comparable. Between the fully locked down hardware and many OS limitations it is much worse than it has ever been. I mean now you cannot open a 3rd party software without going into settings to allow opening, another regression on previously needing to right click, open. The next step is forbidding any unsigned software altogether. And finally, forbidding any software that doesn't come from their fully controlled App Store. It's really way beyond not shipping a software component directly in the system...
dwaite 1y ago
The removal of Java was perhaps the best example of people expecting Apple's obsolescence policy to be the same as Windows, and getting burned. There were large software vendors who had not yet started on a strategy around the deprecation of Java until it was removed from the OS. They didn't look like they even noticed it had been removed in betas and come up with a plan on what to tell customers.

nicce 1y ago

> Today when you generate a PDF from you own content (from Apple Notes app) you are asked about opening links you click on. Or they don't have any usability studies. A hard regression in efficiency in many places. E.g. Safari in iOS 26 forces you to do 50% more button presses. E.g. if you want to close a tab, you need to press one button more these days. Also one button press more to see the current tabs. These are likely the most used scenarios when you use the browser and they add one button press more?

wpm 1y ago
UI/UX seems more like something driven, at Apple and industry wide, by vibes and dogma than it is actual usability.
- linguae 1y ago
  The sad thing is that Apple used to have people like Bill Atkinson (RIP), Larry Tesler (RIP), Bruce Tognazzini, and Don Norman who cared deeply about usability. What made the Mac special wasn’t its looks, especially in the pre-iMac and pre-Mac OS X days when the computers were mostly beige and the classic Mac OS UI was quite plain-looking (though still good-looking, IMO) compared to Mac OS X and later. Rather, what made the Mac special was its attentiveness to UI. Somewhere along the line Apple products became luxury goods that were appealing due to their visual design. I am particularly fond of Apple’s early 2000s design, with beautiful hardware such as the iMac G4 and the Power Mac G4 Cube running early Mac OS X. Apple still makes very visually-appealing hardware and software. However, I feel that under Tim Cook Apple has heavily leaned into its visual appeal at the expense of what made Apple great: the emphasis on usability.
seec 1y ago
Well I don't use Safari anymore. A few years ago, it stopped syncing passwords correctly with my iPhone and nothing I did could fix the problem (there is an issue in the backend on their part, maybe it has been fixed since). On top of that it didn't show favicon for bookmarks which was quite annoying and was slow/worked poorly with some web apps. So I went to Chrome, monopoly be damned. At the rate it's going, there isn't going to be a single app from Apple that I want to keep using, quite soon. By the way, the PDF export for Notes is ridiculously bad. It's an old note and there is some migration bug, all the links have the same target. I haven't bothered to investigate yet, but the plan is to stop using Notes as well, so whatever.