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Here in Norway we have a sort of unique wealth tax, and ever since, there's been nothing but doom and gloom in the media about wealthy people exiling to Switzer

Here in Norway we have a sort of unique wealth tax, and ever since, there's been nothing but doom and gloom in the media about wealthy people exiling to Switzerland. Especially the past couple of months, in the run-up to the election. The wealth tax debate was all-consuming, and really did reach a fever pitch. Turns out, of course, that some of the rich folks that did move to Switzerland, were funding PR and social media campaigns on this topic. It was so omnipresent, that even high school kids had "wealth tax" as one of their most important topics. EDIT: Personally, I think their strategy kind of backfired. There was just too much talk about wealth tax, which doesn't seriously affect too many here. They did try to angle it as "If all the billionaires leave, who's gonna create jobs for the rest?" - but it still didn't resonate too much with the average citizen.

idiotsecant 1y ago
What a delightfully sane and refreshing response. It's nice to hear that places outside the US are capable of rational discourse. I'll go back to my burning dumpster fire now.
- 1234letshaveatw 1y ago
  Yes, there is such a dearth of "eat the rich" voices in the US. There is nowhere to buy cheeseburgers here either.
  - hermitcrab 1y ago
    "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Steinbeck (disputed)
    - 1234letshaveatw 1y ago
      you say that like it is a bad thing...
      - hermitcrab 1y ago
        I find it amusing, because clearly everyone can't be super rich. It is an interesting alternative to telling poor people that, if they behave well, they will be reincarnated as something better in the next life.
        1234letshaveatw 1y ago
        I find it inspiring to live in a place where the possibility is there for anyone
        hermitcrab 1y ago
        It seems to be a lot more there for some people than others.
      - idiotsecant 1y ago
        Got us an embarrassed billionaire over here.
        1234letshaveatw 1y ago
        ever think of why that would be a thing? perhaps because we live in the land of opportunity?
weberer 1y ago
The threshold for Norway's wealth tax is having a total net worth around 150,000 euros, regardless of income. That should affect pretty much everyone who's owned a house for more than a decade.
- MeetingsBrowser 1y ago
  Is this meant to say 1,500,000 euros? 150,000 euros is ~$175k USD and the average US home price is currently sitting around $500k for reference. edit: it does appear that 150,000 is correct, but it is an additional 0.1% tax on wealth above 150,000 euros. Still basically nothing for the overwhelming majority of people. An additional $1,000 a year for every $1,000,000 you are worth.
- LM358 1y ago
  Wealth tax on houses (and apartments, cabins etc..) are calculated as 25% of market value up to 10 MNOK and 70% over that. So you'd need to own a rather luxurious house before having to pay a rather modest tax. Some municipalities also have a separate property tax which iirc is usually an order of magnitude lower than the wealth tax.
- kreyenborgi 1y ago
  Buying a house is actually a simple way to avoid the wealth tax. If you've owned a house for a decade you typically have like 15 or 20 years left on your mortgage and are in debt. The tax worth of the house is some fraction of the sale price, so for a house that one might sell today for €500k the tax value could be like €50k. At the same time, typical debt after only ten years is probably almost half the house price (assuming you had some savings before buying the house). And with debt, that's what your earnings go to... I as an above-median earning Norwegian with house (and thus very negative worth) will probably have decades before getting anywhere near the threshold. And even then you only pay for what's over the threshold, so if you're At the threshold you pay nothing.
RegW 1y ago
Oh, I remember the joy I felt when Phil Collins finally f'd off to Switzerland. I can't wait for Ed Sheeran to follow him - clearly we need to more to make those pips squeak.
eertami 1y ago
If someone's aim is to avoid a wealth tax, then moving to Switzerland (one of the few other countries with a wealth tax) seems like a confusing choice. The Swiss wealth tax is payable in some cantons from ~50k Euros.
- xur17 1y ago
  Switzerland's wealth tax is a lot more reasonable though. UK is 2%, Norway is 1.1%, the Swiss ones are all below 1% (depends on your canton), ex the Zug canton is 0.21%.
  - simonsquiff 1y ago
    There is no UK wealth tax - just your normal income / capital gains tax etc. Dont know what your 2% is meant to be referring to here.
- tchalla 1y ago
  All that matters is the total tax. You calculate the toes tax in Switzerland (including wealth tax) to that of Norway and then you may see it’s a clear choice.
olavgg 1y ago
TrackerFF sounds like someone on the left trying to defend the wealth tax. As a Norwegian who believes in freedom and the right for anyone to start their own business, I think the wealth tax is one of the most toxic taxes ever introduced. In practice, it makes Norwegian-owned companies about 30% less competitive than foreign-owned ones. It’s sold as a “tax on the rich,” but in reality it’s a 2.1% annual tax on businesses. The companies have to cover these costs, and the result is that everyone — rich or poor — ends up paying for it. The only winner here is the state, which wastes the money on useless projects and subsidies. It gets even dumber: businesses that invest in emergency preparedness — like storing gravel or materials for war or disaster scenarios — actually get punished by the wealth tax. Imagine paying 2.1% tax every year on a gravel pile. No, this is not a joke: link: https://www.dn.no/innlegg/beredskap/sikkerhetspolitikk/formuesskatt/beredskapen-svekkes-av-formuesskatten/2-1-1691001 https://www.dn.no/innlegg/beredskap/sikkerhetspolitikk/formu... The consequences are clear: more than half of the 400 wealthiest people in Norway have already left the country. There’s no risk capital left for startups, and outside the oil and gas sector, businesses are struggling. Plenty of smart young engineers fresh out of university can’t find work, and hiring of junior software developers has basically stopped. When we talk about taxes, we should be talking about incentives and motivation. If you tax people so hard that they lose the drive to work and create, then you’ve got a real problem. If I had the chance, I’d move to Sweden or Switzerland immediately. But I can’t, because I’ve got a family to take care of here.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- pcrh 1y ago
  The negative impact of wealth taxes is vastly over-stated. Obviously the impact depends on the level of taxation, but it is instructive to compare it with inflation. Typical wealth taxes are in the region of 1% per year; a 1% (additional) annual rate of inflation would have the same impact on wealth as the tax and not be considered disastrous for any business except those with very marginal profitability.
  - gruez 1y ago

idiotsecant 1y ago

What a delightfully sane and refreshing response. It's nice to hear that places outside the US are capable of rational discourse. I'll go back to my burning dumpster fire now.

1234letshaveatw 1y ago
Yes, there is such a dearth of "eat the rich" voices in the US. There is nowhere to buy cheeseburgers here either.
- hermitcrab 1y ago
  "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Steinbeck (disputed)
  - 1234letshaveatw 1y ago
    you say that like it is a bad thing...
    - hermitcrab 1y ago
      I find it amusing, because clearly everyone can't be super rich. It is an interesting alternative to telling poor people that, if they behave well, they will be reincarnated as something better in the next life.
      - 1234letshaveatw 1y ago
        I find it inspiring to live in a place where the possibility is there for anyone
        hermitcrab 1y ago
        It seems to be a lot more there for some people than others.
    - idiotsecant 1y ago
      Got us an embarrassed billionaire over here.
      - 1234letshaveatw 1y ago
        ever think of why that would be a thing? perhaps because we live in the land of opportunity?

weberer 1y ago

The threshold for Norway's wealth tax is having a total net worth around 150,000 euros, regardless of income. That should affect pretty much everyone who's owned a house for more than a decade.

MeetingsBrowser 1y ago
Is this meant to say 1,500,000 euros? 150,000 euros is ~$175k USD and the average US home price is currently sitting around $500k for reference. edit: it does appear that 150,000 is correct, but it is an additional 0.1% tax on wealth above 150,000 euros. Still basically nothing for the overwhelming majority of people. An additional $1,000 a year for every $1,000,000 you are worth.
LM358 1y ago
Wealth tax on houses (and apartments, cabins etc..) are calculated as 25% of market value up to 10 MNOK and 70% over that. So you'd need to own a rather luxurious house before having to pay a rather modest tax. Some municipalities also have a separate property tax which iirc is usually an order of magnitude lower than the wealth tax.
kreyenborgi 1y ago
Buying a house is actually a simple way to avoid the wealth tax. If you've owned a house for a decade you typically have like 15 or 20 years left on your mortgage and are in debt. The tax worth of the house is some fraction of the sale price, so for a house that one might sell today for €500k the tax value could be like €50k. At the same time, typical debt after only ten years is probably almost half the house price (assuming you had some savings before buying the house). And with debt, that's what your earnings go to... I as an above-median earning Norwegian with house (and thus very negative worth) will probably have decades before getting anywhere near the threshold. And even then you only pay for what's over the threshold, so if you're At the threshold you pay nothing.

RegW 1y ago

Oh, I remember the joy I felt when Phil Collins finally f'd off to Switzerland. I can't wait for Ed Sheeran to follow him - clearly we need to more to make those pips squeak.

eertami 1y ago

If someone's aim is to avoid a wealth tax, then moving to Switzerland (one of the few other countries with a wealth tax) seems like a confusing choice. The Swiss wealth tax is payable in some cantons from ~50k Euros.

xur17 1y ago
Switzerland's wealth tax is a lot more reasonable though. UK is 2%, Norway is 1.1%, the Swiss ones are all below 1% (depends on your canton), ex the Zug canton is 0.21%.
- simonsquiff 1y ago
  There is no UK wealth tax - just your normal income / capital gains tax etc. Dont know what your 2% is meant to be referring to here.
tchalla 1y ago
All that matters is the total tax. You calculate the toes tax in Switzerland (including wealth tax) to that of Norway and then you may see it’s a clear choice.

olavgg 1y ago

TrackerFF sounds like someone on the left trying to defend the wealth tax. As a Norwegian who believes in freedom and the right for anyone to start their own business, I think the wealth tax is one of the most toxic taxes ever introduced. In practice, it makes Norwegian-owned companies about 30% less competitive than foreign-owned ones. It’s sold as a “tax on the rich,” but in reality it’s a 2.1% annual tax on businesses. The companies have to cover these costs, and the result is that everyone — rich or poor — ends up paying for it. The only winner here is the state, which wastes the money on useless projects and subsidies. It gets even dumber: businesses that invest in emergency preparedness — like storing gravel or materials for war or disaster scenarios — actually get punished by the wealth tax. Imagine paying 2.1% tax every year on a gravel pile. No, this is not a joke: link: https://www.dn.no/innlegg/beredskap/sikkerhetspolitikk/formuesskatt/beredskapen-svekkes-av-formuesskatten/2-1-1691001 https://www.dn.no/innlegg/beredskap/sikkerhetspolitikk/formu... The consequences are clear: more than half of the 400 wealthiest people in Norway have already left the country. There’s no risk capital left for startups, and outside the oil and gas sector, businesses are struggling. Plenty of smart young engineers fresh out of university can’t find work, and hiring of junior software developers has basically stopped. When we talk about taxes, we should be talking about incentives and motivation. If you tax people so hard that they lose the drive to work and create, then you’ve got a real problem. If I had the chance, I’d move to Sweden or Switzerland immediately. But I can’t, because I’ve got a family to take care of here.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
pcrh 1y ago
The negative impact of wealth taxes is vastly over-stated. Obviously the impact depends on the level of taxation, but it is instructive to compare it with inflation. Typical wealth taxes are in the region of 1% per year; a 1% (additional) annual rate of inflation would have the same impact on wealth as the tax and not be considered disastrous for any business except those with very marginal profitability.
- gruez 1y ago