12 ms·

The Ruby community has a DHH problem

100 points by eowyn 1y ago

tietjens 1y ago
I don't know why I'm surprised, but this blog does link to DHH actually complaining about the present-day ethnic makeup of London ("demographic nightmare") and contrasting it with Copenhagen. London is apparently too brown for DHH and he is clearly saying that you can't be a native Brit if you're not white. Repugnant and willfully idiotic.
- graemep 1y ago
  As a non-white British person i have no problem with native meaning certain ethnicities - after all, no one would call a white American a native American. What is very, very troubling is his idea that London of all places should be an ethnically white city. London has been multi-ethnic since the 70s or 80s, if not earlier. It is very much a world city. The other thing is that he is Danish and seems to be projecting his feelings about Denmark onto Britain. He does not really understand how British people feel. The organiser of the march he praises is such as toxic figure for his blatant bigotry that the Reform Party (the most right wing party that has seats in Parliament) turned down a $100m donation from Elon Musk rather than allow him to join the party. e ethnic makeup does not bother any white Londoners I know (I grew up in London, so I do know a lot of people there). In fact, the only person I can recall complaining about it in real life was also foreign European. The march was not actually that big. There have been many larger protests in London. From protests against the Iraq war (about five times the turnout), against the ban on huntings with dogs (nearly three times as many) and both pro and anti Brexit. It was by far the largest the far right has been able to organise, but they only managed that by labelling it a march for free speech (I do think there is a genuine problem with free speech in the UK, and I wish we had the sort of protections the US does).
  - triceratops 1y ago
    > As a non-white British person i have no problem with native meaning certain ethnicities It's not actually ethnicity he's talking about, it's skin color. Ethnicity is cultural. Why exactly aren't people of any skin color who live in the UK, speak English, and believe in the full package of "Western values" (equality, freedom of speech, religion, rule of law etc) and "English behaviors" (queueing, tea, whatever) considered English? How many generations is enough to become "native"? He thinks calling his views "far-right" and "racist" and "nazi"-adjacent is going too far because the Social Democrat Prime Minister of his country said the same thing (I actually don't know because the linked interview with Mette Fredriksen was in Danish). But that's how this stuff always begins. It's extremely worrisome.
    - graemep 1y ago
      > It's not actually ethnicity he's talking about, it's skin color. Ethnicity is cultural. DHH says people are not "native Brits". The literal meaning of that is ethnicity, not skin colour. Of course DHH might be using this as code for white, but it is not the literal meaning, and (as another comment points out) the statistic he quotes is for the total of the ethnic groups that are considered white British - it excludes white people who are not ethnically British. If he is, then he is, again, projecting his own views onto a culture he does not really understand. Some people from European countries (e.g. an Albanian illegal immigrant) are far more likely to face hostility than some non-white people (e.g. a professional affluent South Asian with a British accent). Someone recently commented that a racist who they know well would not mind my (brown) family because we "sound posh" so would prefer us to people like Poles. > How many generations is enough to become "native"? Define native! Are white Americans native in the US, and are Afrikaners native to South Africa, etc.? It is an ambiguous word. The problem disappears if you drop the adjective native and just say "British". > Why exactly aren't people of any skin color who live in the UK, speak English, and believe in the full package of "Western values" (equality, freedom of speech, religion, rule of law etc) and "English behaviors" (queueing, tea, whatever) I think the problem with that definition is that lots of people how have never even lived in the UK believe in those values and drink tea and even queue. I know plenty. Also, English or British? British is a nationality, English is arguable an ethnicity (as are Scottish and Welsh). > It's extremely worrisome. I agree there, and it is very disappointing to see DHH spouting this.
      - triceratops 1y ago
        > Define native! That's why I put "native" in scare quotes. > I think the problem with that definition is that lots of people how have never even lived in the UK That's why I wrote "live in the UK" first.
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      "Native Brit" as used by DHH does refer to an ethnicity. He uses data for London from the 2021 official census: 54% "white" but only 37% "white British" (and arguably "native Brits" might be an even smaller group). There is also a difference between being "multi-ethnic" and being minority "native".
  - defrost 1y ago
    > London has been multi-ethnic since the 70s or 80s, if not earlier. It is very much a world city. Leaving aside the Bronze Age structures around the London area and river, The archaeologist Leslie Wallace notes, "Because no LPRIA [Late pre-Roman Iron Age] settlements or significant domestic refuse have been found in London, despite extensive archaeological excavation, arguments for a purely Roman foundation of London are now common and uncontroversial." The city of London itself grew from a multi-ethnic kernel: Londinium was established as a civilian town by the Romans about four years after the invasion of AD 43. London, like Rome, was founded on the point of the river where it was narrow enough to bridge and the strategic location of the city provided easy access to much of Europe. It's been multi-ethnic for at least two thousand years. above quotes sourced from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London
  - KaiserPro 1y ago
    > London has been multi-ethnic since the 70s or 80s, windrush was the 1950, but chinatown had been around since the late 1880s
unixhero 1y ago
I have removed the reply to this post
- tao_oat 1y ago
  if a framework has a BDFL, and that BDFL starts getting increasingly political in a polarizing way, then surely it's fair for the community to respond to that.
  - unixhero 1y ago
    Yes that is a good point. Thanks
- nixosbestos 1y ago
  What on Earth does that even mean? "Freedom of speech" only extends to thinly veiled racism, but not criticism of the thinly veiled racism? I'm sorry, but what?
- skavi 1y ago
  This post was written by an individual, not “Libre Open Source”. It seems fair and within “the spirit of complete freedom of speech” for one individual to criticize another. It also seems reasonable for one person to question another’s leadership position given their expressed views.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
lawgimenez 1y ago
So, what exactly is wrong with UK having only 1/3 native brits? I’m Asian, I don’t get why the West is so concerned. If half of my country are expats immigrating, hell yeah. I don’t see the problem as long as everyone is contributing for the overall community and welfare of the country.
- motbus3 1y ago
  Where did you get that number from?
  - flowerbreeze 1y ago
    It was in the article, although referring to London, not to the entire country.
  - lawgimenez 1y ago
    > 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third. A statistic as evident as day when you walk the streets of London now. From DHH’s linked blog?
    - motbus3 1y ago
      Yeah.. About that ... What is a "native Brit"? A white person? Isn't a 2nd or 3rd generation Londoner from Muslim or catholic background with non white skin a British? I can't see how it was calculated but if you check government numbers, legal migrants are less than a 1% and illegal are not even close to that. If you are worried about how much they cost, I'm sure they are less than the war in Russia, or many of the electoral campaigns for sure. Are you sure this info is unbiased and well curated?
      - cap11235 1y ago
        They are just responding to the post about the quotation. What's your problem?
rubzah 1y ago
DHH has great instincts when it comes to programming and technical projects, but he is not a very smart guy about anything else. Further, he is a bit of a low class buffoon. So just use his stuff and ignore whatever else he rants about on his own time and property, this is the only way to get by in life. You couldn't read a book, watch a movie, or enjoy any music, if you constantly had to vet the authors against your own political views.
- eowyn 1y ago
  In this case it's hard to separate the art from the artist. DHH wields significant power in the community and industry. Shopify is likely to back him and they are a major ruby / rails sponsor. He also has immense influence.
- edu 1y ago
  Totally agree, you can respect the quality of someone’s work without needing to buy into everything they say or do outside of it. I also don’t get where this purity test comes from, but it’s definitely not a good thing.
motbus3 1y ago
We all have been tricked to be sick of "social justice" as it has been purposefully exploited to exhaustion until no one cares any more. This is the same method and rhetoric applied through history. No one measures how far megariches are getting from common folks and just point the guns where they can see because they are led through mediatic misformation campaigns. It does not need to be a convoluted plan, but it is an opportunity where those same ones are using to sell their guns (oops I mean AI). You all be killing each other very soon because you are believing in such campaigns for creating "the enemy". There is no "enemy" who is worried if they'll be able to feed their kids tomorrow. You are being manipulated. Once more. You are being manipulated. Wake up.
- nh23423fefe 1y ago
  It's great we have smart people like you capable of seeing the invisible.
  - cindyllm 1y ago
    [dead]
whatarethembits 1y ago
This is disappointing from DHH. He tends to carry a lot of criticism online, and based on my exposure to his ideas in long form media, I tend to agree with him more than not. However, in his linked post on this issue, it strikes me as being written by someone whose understanding is largely based emotions evoked by provocative news headlines. But, I'm going to refrain from attempting to psychoanalyse an individual who I know very little about (further than the previous sentence). OP's post, I think, correctly points out that DHH appears to believe that British == White. Wish he'd be clear on this point, as he's often claimed and indeed has been in the past regarding other issues. Dancing around it shows a lack of respect for the audience and/or a sign of weak conviction. If you believe in something strongly enough to want to have an impact on its discourse, why not be clear about it? Here's an example of a clear statement regarding this particular issue: "I believe that our country ought to aim for demographics where 80% of the people on our streets look like us [whatever that happens to be]". What's so difficult about that? A clear demand/objective easier to vote on/measure/debate....everyone knows that, then why do the proponents of such ideas always dance around being specific?
phoobahr 1y ago
Ah yes. Complaining about brown people in the capital of a decayed empire that spanned the globe. The sun never sets on this crap.
jajahabav 1y ago
I don’t really understand the authors point of view. If I moved to Japan and got citizenship, I’d know full well I’m not Japanese and never will be. I’d behave like a guest for the rest of my life (though obviously be grateful for any kindness the locals show me). I certainly would not make posts about how the locals are the real problem and they’re evil for not accommodating me. It’s also odd the article is trying to paint Tommy Robinson as “far right”. He’s deeply in bed with the Israelis, who last I checked don’t get along with the “far right”. He’s pushing anti Muslim sentiment to garner support for the genocide in Gaza.
- triceratops 1y ago
  > I’d behave like a guest [If I moved to Japan and got citizenship] for the rest of my life Why would you want to be a guest in your own country for the rest of your life? > I certainly would not make posts about how the locals are the real problem That's not what the post said. > they’re evil for not accommodating me. What does "accommodating" mean? From what I can tell they just want to not be treated like a guest in their own country. Not a crazy request. Taking citizenship in another country is comparable to being a new convert to a religion. Is it acceptable for people born and raised in the faith to treat new converts differently?
  - graemep 1y ago
    I really like your last point. its not a prefect analogy but it is pretty good. Another comparison that occurs to me is joining a club.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      > Another comparison that occurs to me is joining a club. I think it's a bit more profound than that. Club membership doesn't change most people's identity. They aren't defined by it. On the other hand citizenship is one of the first descriptors used about a person formally. Check out how any Wikipedia article about a person from the last couple centuries begins - "<Person name> is/was a <nationality or citizenship> <profession or thing they are notable for>." "Steven Allan Spielberg is an American filmmaker." [1] "Sir Mohamed Muktar Jama Farah (born Hussein Abdi Kahin) is a British former long-distance runner."[2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Farah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Farah
throw5t4323rt 1y ago
I’m surprised DHH made the blog post on the hey.com domain, since it’s also the domain of their email service. If I was a customer I would be canceling my service because I really don’t want my emails to be associated with any type of controversial topic. Why doesn’t he post it under his own domain, rather than a company one? I’ve used Basecamp in the past, and actually considered signing up for hey.com. Good thing I didn’t waste my money on it. Would be such a pain to have to switch my email address.
- ricardobeat 1y ago
  Hey can be used as a blogging platform (https://www.hey.com/world/ https://www.hey.com/world/), that would be the equivalent of deleting your GitHub account because someone published a controversial project.
  - arnz-arnz 1y ago
    DHH is a co-owner, so it's like leaving X because you know why
Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago
I find insane that somebody did deep research on another person at this level,even if the information is public. He is making software available for free. Feel FREE not to use it.
- oliwarner 1y ago
  Software ecosystems create communities and give developers a voice. It's okay to care about the health of the community. To worry about the voices promoted.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago
    I agree up to a point, I find nauseating the idea that somebody digged so deep into a person where the most likely explanation is that the goal is to generate outrage with every of their statement (doesn't matter what's the reason). Even social media websites realized that's the way to get traction. Now if the problem shows up during a professional interaction in work on open source software, causing damage to somebody, I see the point in raising complaints, but that would be a very explicit problem. And even in that case, just fork Rails, they did that with Elm because of poor management, they didn't ask to remove the author of Elm from Elm, they just forked.
    - dpatterbee 1y ago
      > digged so deep into a person They literally just read his blog.
    - eowyn 1y ago
      It doesn't require any amount of digging to learn about DHH's opinions. He writes, tweets, speaks about them. He's an influential voice in the Ruby and Rails communities and any regular participants are likely to hear about him
akagusu 1y ago
Why was this flagged?
- toughquestion 1y ago
  [dead]
- blackbell 1y ago
  [flagged]
- tietjens 1y ago
  good question...
onetimepass3 1y ago
It’s 2025 and it’s concerning that we are still trying to cancel and silence people for opining. People have a right to voice unpopular opinions. And programming communities have to stop pretending like they are some self-righteous above-everyone morally-superior folks. It’s incredibly lazy as well to label someone as racist, whatever-ist by quoting what they say as if a quote can encapsulate a person’s whole life and meaning. What DHH says is actually the majority opinion of the world. I am an immigrant and do not find his thoughts controversial. I might disagree on some points but it is rather dismissive and tone deaf to ignore a majority opinion and silence it as if the programming enclaves of $100k compensated individuals somehow are superior to or worse, represent the majority population who may not have the same opportunities and thinking patterns. It’s also tiring to see these write ups to portray to the world how good and liberal you are and to show which party one is aligned with (your tent is getting smaller even though you originally thought it included everyone) - groupthink masquerading as original free thought. I am actually not (no longer) part of your tent as I find it repulsive and lazy. Programmers should program and not limit programming communities from people they somehow think are morally inferior. Just realize that you are just as shitty as the person you think you are superior too. It’s all code at the end of the day.

100 points by eowyn 1y ago

I don't know why I'm surprised, but this blog does link to DHH actually complaining about the present-day ethnic makeup of London ("demographic nightmare") and contrasting it with Copenhagen. London is apparently too brown for DHH and he is clearly saying that you can't be a native Brit if you're not white. Repugnant and willfully idiotic.

graemep 1y ago
As a non-white British person i have no problem with native meaning certain ethnicities - after all, no one would call a white American a native American. What is very, very troubling is his idea that London of all places should be an ethnically white city. London has been multi-ethnic since the 70s or 80s, if not earlier. It is very much a world city. The other thing is that he is Danish and seems to be projecting his feelings about Denmark onto Britain. He does not really understand how British people feel. The organiser of the march he praises is such as toxic figure for his blatant bigotry that the Reform Party (the most right wing party that has seats in Parliament) turned down a $100m donation from Elon Musk rather than allow him to join the party. e ethnic makeup does not bother any white Londoners I know (I grew up in London, so I do know a lot of people there). In fact, the only person I can recall complaining about it in real life was also foreign European. The march was not actually that big. There have been many larger protests in London. From protests against the Iraq war (about five times the turnout), against the ban on huntings with dogs (nearly three times as many) and both pro and anti Brexit. It was by far the largest the far right has been able to organise, but they only managed that by labelling it a march for free speech (I do think there is a genuine problem with free speech in the UK, and I wish we had the sort of protections the US does).
- triceratops 1y ago
  > As a non-white British person i have no problem with native meaning certain ethnicities It's not actually ethnicity he's talking about, it's skin color. Ethnicity is cultural. Why exactly aren't people of any skin color who live in the UK, speak English, and believe in the full package of "Western values" (equality, freedom of speech, religion, rule of law etc) and "English behaviors" (queueing, tea, whatever) considered English? How many generations is enough to become "native"? He thinks calling his views "far-right" and "racist" and "nazi"-adjacent is going too far because the Social Democrat Prime Minister of his country said the same thing (I actually don't know because the linked interview with Mette Fredriksen was in Danish). But that's how this stuff always begins. It's extremely worrisome.
  - graemep 1y ago
    > It's not actually ethnicity he's talking about, it's skin color. Ethnicity is cultural. DHH says people are not "native Brits". The literal meaning of that is ethnicity, not skin colour. Of course DHH might be using this as code for white, but it is not the literal meaning, and (as another comment points out) the statistic he quotes is for the total of the ethnic groups that are considered white British - it excludes white people who are not ethnically British. If he is, then he is, again, projecting his own views onto a culture he does not really understand. Some people from European countries (e.g. an Albanian illegal immigrant) are far more likely to face hostility than some non-white people (e.g. a professional affluent South Asian with a British accent). Someone recently commented that a racist who they know well would not mind my (brown) family because we "sound posh" so would prefer us to people like Poles. > How many generations is enough to become "native"? Define native! Are white Americans native in the US, and are Afrikaners native to South Africa, etc.? It is an ambiguous word. The problem disappears if you drop the adjective native and just say "British". > Why exactly aren't people of any skin color who live in the UK, speak English, and believe in the full package of "Western values" (equality, freedom of speech, religion, rule of law etc) and "English behaviors" (queueing, tea, whatever) I think the problem with that definition is that lots of people how have never even lived in the UK believe in those values and drink tea and even queue. I know plenty. Also, English or British? British is a nationality, English is arguable an ethnicity (as are Scottish and Welsh). > It's extremely worrisome. I agree there, and it is very disappointing to see DHH spouting this.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      > Define native! That's why I put "native" in scare quotes. > I think the problem with that definition is that lots of people how have never even lived in the UK That's why I wrote "live in the UK" first.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    "Native Brit" as used by DHH does refer to an ethnicity. He uses data for London from the 2021 official census: 54% "white" but only 37% "white British" (and arguably "native Brits" might be an even smaller group). There is also a difference between being "multi-ethnic" and being minority "native".
- defrost 1y ago
  > London has been multi-ethnic since the 70s or 80s, if not earlier. It is very much a world city. Leaving aside the Bronze Age structures around the London area and river, The archaeologist Leslie Wallace notes, "Because no LPRIA [Late pre-Roman Iron Age] settlements or significant domestic refuse have been found in London, despite extensive archaeological excavation, arguments for a purely Roman foundation of London are now common and uncontroversial." The city of London itself grew from a multi-ethnic kernel: Londinium was established as a civilian town by the Romans about four years after the invasion of AD 43. London, like Rome, was founded on the point of the river where it was narrow enough to bridge and the strategic location of the city provided easy access to much of Europe. It's been multi-ethnic for at least two thousand years. above quotes sourced from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London
- KaiserPro 1y ago
  > London has been multi-ethnic since the 70s or 80s, windrush was the 1950, but chinatown had been around since the late 1880s

unixhero 1y ago

I have removed the reply to this post

tao_oat 1y ago
if a framework has a BDFL, and that BDFL starts getting increasingly political in a polarizing way, then surely it's fair for the community to respond to that.
- unixhero 1y ago
  Yes that is a good point. Thanks
nixosbestos 1y ago
What on Earth does that even mean? "Freedom of speech" only extends to thinly veiled racism, but not criticism of the thinly veiled racism? I'm sorry, but what?
skavi 1y ago
This post was written by an individual, not “Libre Open Source”. It seems fair and within “the spirit of complete freedom of speech” for one individual to criticize another. It also seems reasonable for one person to question another’s leadership position given their expressed views.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

lawgimenez 1y ago

So, what exactly is wrong with UK having only 1/3 native brits? I’m Asian, I don’t get why the West is so concerned. If half of my country are expats immigrating, hell yeah. I don’t see the problem as long as everyone is contributing for the overall community and welfare of the country.

motbus3 1y ago
Where did you get that number from?
- flowerbreeze 1y ago
  It was in the article, although referring to London, not to the entire country.
- lawgimenez 1y ago
  > 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third. A statistic as evident as day when you walk the streets of London now. From DHH’s linked blog?
  - motbus3 1y ago
    Yeah.. About that ... What is a "native Brit"? A white person? Isn't a 2nd or 3rd generation Londoner from Muslim or catholic background with non white skin a British? I can't see how it was calculated but if you check government numbers, legal migrants are less than a 1% and illegal are not even close to that. If you are worried about how much they cost, I'm sure they are less than the war in Russia, or many of the electoral campaigns for sure. Are you sure this info is unbiased and well curated?
    - cap11235 1y ago
      They are just responding to the post about the quotation. What's your problem?

rubzah 1y ago

DHH has great instincts when it comes to programming and technical projects, but he is not a very smart guy about anything else. Further, he is a bit of a low class buffoon. So just use his stuff and ignore whatever else he rants about on his own time and property, this is the only way to get by in life. You couldn't read a book, watch a movie, or enjoy any music, if you constantly had to vet the authors against your own political views.

eowyn 1y ago
In this case it's hard to separate the art from the artist. DHH wields significant power in the community and industry. Shopify is likely to back him and they are a major ruby / rails sponsor. He also has immense influence.
edu 1y ago
Totally agree, you can respect the quality of someone’s work without needing to buy into everything they say or do outside of it. I also don’t get where this purity test comes from, but it’s definitely not a good thing.

motbus3 1y ago

We all have been tricked to be sick of "social justice" as it has been purposefully exploited to exhaustion until no one cares any more. This is the same method and rhetoric applied through history. No one measures how far megariches are getting from common folks and just point the guns where they can see because they are led through mediatic misformation campaigns. It does not need to be a convoluted plan, but it is an opportunity where those same ones are using to sell their guns (oops I mean AI). You all be killing each other very soon because you are believing in such campaigns for creating "the enemy". There is no "enemy" who is worried if they'll be able to feed their kids tomorrow. You are being manipulated. Once more. You are being manipulated. Wake up.

nh23423fefe 1y ago
It's great we have smart people like you capable of seeing the invisible.
- cindyllm 1y ago
  [dead]

whatarethembits 1y ago

This is disappointing from DHH. He tends to carry a lot of criticism online, and based on my exposure to his ideas in long form media, I tend to agree with him more than not. However, in his linked post on this issue, it strikes me as being written by someone whose understanding is largely based emotions evoked by provocative news headlines. But, I'm going to refrain from attempting to psychoanalyse an individual who I know very little about (further than the previous sentence). OP's post, I think, correctly points out that DHH appears to believe that British == White. Wish he'd be clear on this point, as he's often claimed and indeed has been in the past regarding other issues. Dancing around it shows a lack of respect for the audience and/or a sign of weak conviction. If you believe in something strongly enough to want to have an impact on its discourse, why not be clear about it? Here's an example of a clear statement regarding this particular issue: "I believe that our country ought to aim for demographics where 80% of the people on our streets look like us [whatever that happens to be]". What's so difficult about that? A clear demand/objective easier to vote on/measure/debate....everyone knows that, then why do the proponents of such ideas always dance around being specific?

phoobahr 1y ago

Ah yes. Complaining about brown people in the capital of a decayed empire that spanned the globe. The sun never sets on this crap.

jajahabav 1y ago

I don’t really understand the authors point of view. If I moved to Japan and got citizenship, I’d know full well I’m not Japanese and never will be. I’d behave like a guest for the rest of my life (though obviously be grateful for any kindness the locals show me). I certainly would not make posts about how the locals are the real problem and they’re evil for not accommodating me. It’s also odd the article is trying to paint Tommy Robinson as “far right”. He’s deeply in bed with the Israelis, who last I checked don’t get along with the “far right”. He’s pushing anti Muslim sentiment to garner support for the genocide in Gaza.

triceratops 1y ago
> I’d behave like a guest [If I moved to Japan and got citizenship] for the rest of my life Why would you want to be a guest in your own country for the rest of your life? > I certainly would not make posts about how the locals are the real problem That's not what the post said. > they’re evil for not accommodating me. What does "accommodating" mean? From what I can tell they just want to not be treated like a guest in their own country. Not a crazy request. Taking citizenship in another country is comparable to being a new convert to a religion. Is it acceptable for people born and raised in the faith to treat new converts differently?
- graemep 1y ago
  I really like your last point. its not a prefect analogy but it is pretty good. Another comparison that occurs to me is joining a club.
  - triceratops 1y ago
    > Another comparison that occurs to me is joining a club. I think it's a bit more profound than that. Club membership doesn't change most people's identity. They aren't defined by it. On the other hand citizenship is one of the first descriptors used about a person formally. Check out how any Wikipedia article about a person from the last couple centuries begins - "<Person name> is/was a <nationality or citizenship> <profession or thing they are notable for>." "Steven Allan Spielberg is an American filmmaker." [1] "Sir Mohamed Muktar Jama Farah (born Hussein Abdi Kahin) is a British former long-distance runner."[2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Farah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Farah

throw5t4323rt 1y ago

I’m surprised DHH made the blog post on the hey.com domain, since it’s also the domain of their email service. If I was a customer I would be canceling my service because I really don’t want my emails to be associated with any type of controversial topic. Why doesn’t he post it under his own domain, rather than a company one? I’ve used Basecamp in the past, and actually considered signing up for hey.com. Good thing I didn’t waste my money on it. Would be such a pain to have to switch my email address.

ricardobeat 1y ago
Hey can be used as a blogging platform (https://www.hey.com/world/ https://www.hey.com/world/), that would be the equivalent of deleting your GitHub account because someone published a controversial project.
- arnz-arnz 1y ago
  DHH is a co-owner, so it's like leaving X because you know why

Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago

I find insane that somebody did deep research on another person at this level,even if the information is public. He is making software available for free. Feel FREE not to use it.

oliwarner 1y ago
Software ecosystems create communities and give developers a voice. It's okay to care about the health of the community. To worry about the voices promoted.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago
  I agree up to a point, I find nauseating the idea that somebody digged so deep into a person where the most likely explanation is that the goal is to generate outrage with every of their statement (doesn't matter what's the reason). Even social media websites realized that's the way to get traction. Now if the problem shows up during a professional interaction in work on open source software, causing damage to somebody, I see the point in raising complaints, but that would be a very explicit problem. And even in that case, just fork Rails, they did that with Elm because of poor management, they didn't ask to remove the author of Elm from Elm, they just forked.
  - dpatterbee 1y ago
    > digged so deep into a person They literally just read his blog.
  - eowyn 1y ago
    It doesn't require any amount of digging to learn about DHH's opinions. He writes, tweets, speaks about them. He's an influential voice in the Ruby and Rails communities and any regular participants are likely to hear about him

akagusu 1y ago

Why was this flagged?

toughquestion 1y ago
[dead]
blackbell 1y ago
[flagged]
tietjens 1y ago
good question...

onetimepass3 1y ago

It’s 2025 and it’s concerning that we are still trying to cancel and silence people for opining. People have a right to voice unpopular opinions. And programming communities have to stop pretending like they are some self-righteous above-everyone morally-superior folks. It’s incredibly lazy as well to label someone as racist, whatever-ist by quoting what they say as if a quote can encapsulate a person’s whole life and meaning. What DHH says is actually the majority opinion of the world. I am an immigrant and do not find his thoughts controversial. I might disagree on some points but it is rather dismissive and tone deaf to ignore a majority opinion and silence it as if the programming enclaves of $100k compensated individuals somehow are superior to or worse, represent the majority population who may not have the same opportunities and thinking patterns. It’s also tiring to see these write ups to portray to the world how good and liberal you are and to show which party one is aligned with (your tent is getting smaller even though you originally thought it included everyone) - groupthink masquerading as original free thought. I am actually not (no longer) part of your tent as I find it repulsive and lazy. Programmers should program and not limit programming communities from people they somehow think are morally inferior. Just realize that you are just as shitty as the person you think you are superior too. It’s all code at the end of the day.