5 ms·

Which is exactly why it has a bad rep. In most people mind BitTorrent = illegal download.

by maeln 1y ago

_zoltan_ 1y ago
downloading movies for personal use is legal in many countries.
- ahofmann 1y ago
  This is a useless discussion. Imagine how the firewall-guy/network-team in your company will react to that argument.
  - loa_in_ 1y ago
    This is not a useless discussion just because it'll inconvenience someone who is at work anyway.
- _flux 1y ago
  How about the uploading part of it, which is behind the magic of Bittorrent and default mode of operation?
- lobochrome 1y ago
  Really?? Which countries allow copyright infringement by individuals?
  - Pooge 1y ago
    None. Because you projected your country's laws in the discussion, you failed to see that the countries that allow copyrighted material to be downloaded for personal usage do not qualify that download as "copyright infringement" in the first place. To answer your question with the only answer I know: Switzerland.
  - iiv 1y ago
    How is downloading a movie copyright infringement?
    - simiones 1y ago
      A download is a copy of a work. So, downloading a movie is making a copy of a work that you are not a copyright holder of - in other words, either you or the site you are downloading from are infringing on the copyright holder's exclusive right to create copies of their work. You could claim there is some fair use exemption for this case, or you can have an alternative way of authorizing copies and paying for them like Switzerland does, but there is no doubt in any legal system that downloading is the same kind of action as copying a book at a print shop.
      - jrflowers 1y ago
        I love how enthusiastic this post is while being wrong. Making a copy of a thing does not violate copyright (eg you can photocopy a book that you possess even temporarily). Sharing a copy that you made can violate copyright. It is like mixing up “it’s illegal to poison somebody with bleach” and “it’s illegal to own bleach”. The action you take makes a big difference Also, as an aside, when you view a legitimately-purchased and downloaded video file that you have license to watch, the video player you use makes a copy from the disk to memory. If I own a license to listen to Metallica - Enter Sandman.m4a that I bought on iTunes and in the download folder I screw up and I make Metallica - Enter Sandman(1).m4a Metallica - Enter Sandman(2).m4a Metallica - Enter Sandman(3).m4a How much money do I owe Lars Ulrich for doing that based on The Law of The Earth Everywhere But Switzerland?
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        Mindwipe 1y ago
        > I love how enthusiastic this post is while being wrong. This is a very funny thing to say given that post is entirely correct, while you are wrong. > Making a copy of a thing does not violate copyright Yes it does, unless it's permitted under a designated copyright exemption by local law. For instance, you mention that the video player makes a copy from disk to memory, well that is explicitly permitted by Article 5(1) of the Copyright Directive 2001 in the EU as a use that is "temporary, transient or incidental and an integral and essential part of a technological process", as otherwise it would be illegal as by default, any action to copy is a breach of copyright. That's literally where the word comes from. > If I own a license to listen to Metallica - Enter Sandman.m4a that I bought on iTunes and in the download folder I screw up and I make > Metallica - Enter Sandman(1).m4a > Metallica - Enter Sandman(2).m4a > Metallica - Enter Sandman(3).m4a In legal terms you do indeed owe him something, yes. It would probably be covered under the private copy exemptions in some EU territories, but only on the basis that blank media is taxed to pay rightsholders a royalty for these actions under the relevant collective management associations.
  - _zoltan_ 1y ago
    See above: there are a few, but it's not copyright infringement.
- em-bee 1y ago
  download yes, but using bittorrent means you are sharing, and that's not allowed in most countries even if downloading is.
- simiones 1y ago
  Not in any country that is part of the big international IP agreements (Berne convention, Paris Act). The only exception (sort of) is Switzerland. And the reason downloading copyrighted content you haven't bought for personal use is legal in Switzerland is because the government is essentially paying for it - there is a tax in Switzerland on empty media, the proceeds from which are distributed to copyright holders whose content is consumed in Switzerland, regardless of whether it is bought directly from the rights holder or otherwise. Apparently the legal status of downloading copyrighted materials for personal use is also murky in Spain, where apparently at least one judge found that it is legal - but I don't know how solid the reasoning was or whether other judges would agree (being a civil law country, legal precedent is not binding in Spain to the same extent that it would be in the UK or USA).
  - jrflowers 1y ago
    There is also the US. It is legal to download movies in the United States. You can, however, get dinged by the automated lawsuit or complaint bots for uploading them, which makes torrenting without a vpn less than ideal.
    - Mindwipe 1y ago
      > It is legal to download movies in the United States. No it isn't. It's not a criminal offense, but if someone can sue you for it and win then it isn't "legal" under any technical or popular definition of the word.
      - jrflowers 1y ago
        Finding examples of people getting successfully sued for downloading or viewing movies without sharing them should be trivial, then. Otherwise, less any examples of enforcement or successful legal action, downloading movies is illegal in the US in the same way that blasphemy is illegal in Michigan. https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-102 https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-1...
    - yesssql 1y ago

Which is exactly why it has a bad rep. In most people mind BitTorrent = illegal download.

by maeln 1y ago

Which is exactly why it has a bad rep. In most people mind BitTorrent = illegal download.

_zoltan_ 1y ago

downloading movies for personal use is legal in many countries.

ahofmann 1y ago
This is a useless discussion. Imagine how the firewall-guy/network-team in your company will react to that argument.
- loa_in_ 1y ago
  This is not a useless discussion just because it'll inconvenience someone who is at work anyway.
_flux 1y ago
How about the uploading part of it, which is behind the magic of Bittorrent and default mode of operation?
lobochrome 1y ago
Really?? Which countries allow copyright infringement by individuals?
- Pooge 1y ago
  None. Because you projected your country's laws in the discussion, you failed to see that the countries that allow copyrighted material to be downloaded for personal usage do not qualify that download as "copyright infringement" in the first place. To answer your question with the only answer I know: Switzerland.
- iiv 1y ago
  How is downloading a movie copyright infringement?
  - simiones 1y ago
    A download is a copy of a work. So, downloading a movie is making a copy of a work that you are not a copyright holder of - in other words, either you or the site you are downloading from are infringing on the copyright holder's exclusive right to create copies of their work. You could claim there is some fair use exemption for this case, or you can have an alternative way of authorizing copies and paying for them like Switzerland does, but there is no doubt in any legal system that downloading is the same kind of action as copying a book at a print shop.
    - jrflowers 1y ago
      I love how enthusiastic this post is while being wrong. Making a copy of a thing does not violate copyright (eg you can photocopy a book that you possess even temporarily). Sharing a copy that you made can violate copyright. It is like mixing up “it’s illegal to poison somebody with bleach” and “it’s illegal to own bleach”. The action you take makes a big difference Also, as an aside, when you view a legitimately-purchased and downloaded video file that you have license to watch, the video player you use makes a copy from the disk to memory. If I own a license to listen to Metallica - Enter Sandman.m4a that I bought on iTunes and in the download folder I screw up and I make Metallica - Enter Sandman(1).m4a Metallica - Enter Sandman(2).m4a Metallica - Enter Sandman(3).m4a How much money do I owe Lars Ulrich for doing that based on The Law of The Earth Everywhere But Switzerland?
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - Mindwipe 1y ago
        > I love how enthusiastic this post is while being wrong. This is a very funny thing to say given that post is entirely correct, while you are wrong. > Making a copy of a thing does not violate copyright Yes it does, unless it's permitted under a designated copyright exemption by local law. For instance, you mention that the video player makes a copy from disk to memory, well that is explicitly permitted by Article 5(1) of the Copyright Directive 2001 in the EU as a use that is "temporary, transient or incidental and an integral and essential part of a technological process", as otherwise it would be illegal as by default, any action to copy is a breach of copyright. That's literally where the word comes from. > If I own a license to listen to Metallica - Enter Sandman.m4a that I bought on iTunes and in the download folder I screw up and I make > Metallica - Enter Sandman(1).m4a > Metallica - Enter Sandman(2).m4a > Metallica - Enter Sandman(3).m4a In legal terms you do indeed owe him something, yes. It would probably be covered under the private copy exemptions in some EU territories, but only on the basis that blank media is taxed to pay rightsholders a royalty for these actions under the relevant collective management associations.
- _zoltan_ 1y ago
  See above: there are a few, but it's not copyright infringement.
em-bee 1y ago
download yes, but using bittorrent means you are sharing, and that's not allowed in most countries even if downloading is.
simiones 1y ago
Not in any country that is part of the big international IP agreements (Berne convention, Paris Act). The only exception (sort of) is Switzerland. And the reason downloading copyrighted content you haven't bought for personal use is legal in Switzerland is because the government is essentially paying for it - there is a tax in Switzerland on empty media, the proceeds from which are distributed to copyright holders whose content is consumed in Switzerland, regardless of whether it is bought directly from the rights holder or otherwise. Apparently the legal status of downloading copyrighted materials for personal use is also murky in Spain, where apparently at least one judge found that it is legal - but I don't know how solid the reasoning was or whether other judges would agree (being a civil law country, legal precedent is not binding in Spain to the same extent that it would be in the UK or USA).
- jrflowers 1y ago
  There is also the US. It is legal to download movies in the United States. You can, however, get dinged by the automated lawsuit or complaint bots for uploading them, which makes torrenting without a vpn less than ideal.
  - Mindwipe 1y ago
    > It is legal to download movies in the United States. No it isn't. It's not a criminal offense, but if someone can sue you for it and win then it isn't "legal" under any technical or popular definition of the word.
    - jrflowers 1y ago
      Finding examples of people getting successfully sued for downloading or viewing movies without sharing them should be trivial, then. Otherwise, less any examples of enforcement or successful legal action, downloading movies is illegal in the US in the same way that blasphemy is illegal in Michigan. https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-102 https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-1...
  - yesssql 1y ago