4 ms·

If we fully admit that the DSM is merely a tool for treatment, a stastical tool to say "this drug might help the issues youre feeling" fine, however this is not

If we fully admit that the DSM is merely a tool for treatment, a stastical tool to say "this drug might help the issues youre feeling" fine, however this is not the view Ive commonly seen in phycitatric literature, which points at ADHD being a "real disorder", as something definite one "has". Patients also commonly believe they have a definite disorder, saying things like how they finally "discovered" they have ADHd or even that they might "have undiagnosed ADHD". If we agree that the diagnosis is not informative, thst it is merely putting a name to something one already knows about themselves, do we then agree that this kind of talk is invalid? If so, and if this view is really prevalent in psychiatry, somehow it's completely lost on the general public and media.

watwut 1y ago
> saying things like how they finally "discovered" they have ADHd or even that they might "have undiagnosed ADHD" This is not in contradiction to something being syndrome. Plus patients usually do not understand and do not have to understand technical nuts and bolts of whatever issues they have. You cant require people to talk in clunky language qualifying every single nuance each time they speak about issues or diagnoses they have. You would just render them unable to express what they need to express. > If so, and if this view is really prevalent in psychiatry, somehow it's completely lost on the general public and media. General public and media are completely lost on eating disorders, OCD, psychosis and pretty much any other psychiatric/psychological problem. They are equally lost on AI, HIV and economic policy.
- andoando 1y ago
  I don't think I am being pedantic. There is a monumental difference in how you perceive your condition between "I have some troublesome behaviors which these drugs can sometimes alleviate" and "I have an inherently disordered brain that cannot function properly". Perhaps the HN crowd is different, but the latter fits most people's understanding of what Ive seen
  - Fraterkes 1y ago
    What is the qualitative difference between "having some troublesome behaviors" and "having an inherently disordered brain" in your opinion?
    - watwut 1y ago
      Behaviours are what you do - how you interact with the world. Having disordered brain is about how your brain functions. If I yell at you, it is behavior not am "inherently disordered brain". If I feel sad all the time, it is not a behavior. It is a feeling. If I am forgetting a lot, it is a brain function too, not a behavior. Behavior can be used to mitigate the disordered brain, it can be result of it, it can be completely intendent of it. Behavior can be something positive or neutral. Eating is behavior, giving a gift is a behavior.
      - Fraterkes 1y ago
        I understand what behaviours are, but "having troublesome behaviours" implies something kinda systemic right? Something that someone does habitually (otherwise you probably wouldn't seek out medication for it). What is it that causes that habit, and if it is a mental cause, how does that differ from having a "disordered brain"?
        andoando 1y ago
        Having troubles in your life does not imply something systemic no. The qualitive difference is one a name for a group of symptoms, the other claims to be a cause of those symptoms. You may be losing things often because your place is a complete mess. You may not keep attention in conversations because you spend all your time playing video games and cant relate to anybody, or because regular people simply bore you and you need to find your own crowd. These kind of explanations are far different than "My brain is inherently and permanently incapable of 'proper executive function'. and the REASON Im like xyz is because of ADHD". Take a look at /r/ADHD if you get a chance. I saw a top thread that read "Does anyone else have trouble keeping eye contact during sex?" with everyone going "wow me too! I didnt know this was an adhd thing!"
istjohn 1y ago
I think you should re-read the parent comment, and try to read what is written instead of what you are looking to read.
raverbashing 1y ago
First and foremost, DSM is a classification tool. It is to set up the jargon and coding of the disorders

watwut 1y ago

> saying things like how they finally "discovered" they have ADHd or even that they might "have undiagnosed ADHD" This is not in contradiction to something being syndrome. Plus patients usually do not understand and do not have to understand technical nuts and bolts of whatever issues they have. You cant require people to talk in clunky language qualifying every single nuance each time they speak about issues or diagnoses they have. You would just render them unable to express what they need to express. > If so, and if this view is really prevalent in psychiatry, somehow it's completely lost on the general public and media. General public and media are completely lost on eating disorders, OCD, psychosis and pretty much any other psychiatric/psychological problem. They are equally lost on AI, HIV and economic policy.

andoando 1y ago
I don't think I am being pedantic. There is a monumental difference in how you perceive your condition between "I have some troublesome behaviors which these drugs can sometimes alleviate" and "I have an inherently disordered brain that cannot function properly". Perhaps the HN crowd is different, but the latter fits most people's understanding of what Ive seen
- Fraterkes 1y ago
  What is the qualitative difference between "having some troublesome behaviors" and "having an inherently disordered brain" in your opinion?
  - watwut 1y ago
    Behaviours are what you do - how you interact with the world. Having disordered brain is about how your brain functions. If I yell at you, it is behavior not am "inherently disordered brain". If I feel sad all the time, it is not a behavior. It is a feeling. If I am forgetting a lot, it is a brain function too, not a behavior. Behavior can be used to mitigate the disordered brain, it can be result of it, it can be completely intendent of it. Behavior can be something positive or neutral. Eating is behavior, giving a gift is a behavior.
    - Fraterkes 1y ago
      I understand what behaviours are, but "having troublesome behaviours" implies something kinda systemic right? Something that someone does habitually (otherwise you probably wouldn't seek out medication for it). What is it that causes that habit, and if it is a mental cause, how does that differ from having a "disordered brain"?
      - andoando 1y ago
        Having troubles in your life does not imply something systemic no. The qualitive difference is one a name for a group of symptoms, the other claims to be a cause of those symptoms. You may be losing things often because your place is a complete mess. You may not keep attention in conversations because you spend all your time playing video games and cant relate to anybody, or because regular people simply bore you and you need to find your own crowd. These kind of explanations are far different than "My brain is inherently and permanently incapable of 'proper executive function'. and the REASON Im like xyz is because of ADHD". Take a look at /r/ADHD if you get a chance. I saw a top thread that read "Does anyone else have trouble keeping eye contact during sex?" with everyone going "wow me too! I didnt know this was an adhd thing!"

istjohn 1y ago

I think you should re-read the parent comment, and try to read what is written instead of what you are looking to read.

raverbashing 1y ago

First and foremost, DSM is a classification tool. It is to set up the jargon and coding of the disorders