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It's not an enforcement issue so much as it is a heavily exploited loophole. Part of the reason freight trains are so long is so that they can't fit in passing

It's not an enforcement issue so much as it is a heavily exploited loophole. Part of the reason freight trains are so long is so that they can't fit in passing sidings. Since Amtrak does fit, they end up having to yield because the freight trains simply cannot. Could this be fixed by legislation on max train length to ensure all trains fit in sidings? Yes. Will that legislation get passed? No. An interesting video on the subject: https://youtu.be/qQTjLWIHN74?si=t3u3iyZj1kRQQUCe https://youtu.be/qQTjLWIHN74?si=t3u3iyZj1kRQQUCe

oofbey 1y ago
Classic America. Laws favor industry and commerce over individuals. Because lower prices benefits everybody. Uh huh.
bluGill 1y ago
Amtrak says this but the freight disagree. At this point I assume both sides are lieing.
- crooked-v 1y ago
  Amtrak isn't lying. You can see that the freight trains are too long by literally just watching one.
- manquer 1y ago
  Having a enforced max length on any route especially those with commuter service is not a bad idea, it is the tendency of freight to scale up the number of cars as much as possible for efficiency, passenger services work better shorter with more frequent services. Yes there are myriad other reasons Amtrak gets delayed, it is not like this is the only bottleneck they have, but that doesn't mean this is not also a key problem.
  - tacticus 1y ago
    long trains are great for reducing cost and reducing total profit by delivering slower less frequent services :\
- DrewADesign 1y ago
  From what people in the industry have told me, freight train management is no less scummy than any other kind of freight transportation management, and they continually make trains longer and longer despite nearly everyone’s objections. Some are miles long so there’s no way engineers can see the front of the train even with a gentle curve, and they’re taking hazardous cargo through populated areas. I’d take Amtrak’s word on it.
  - mcv 1y ago
    Wasn't there a big train crash with hazardous materials on an understaffed train a few years ago? And a strike for more sensible working conditions that was struck down by Congress? I love that the US moves so much freight by train rather than truck, but everything I hear about how trains are run in the US sounds terrible.
    - supertrope 1y ago
      The East Palestine, Ohio crash can’t be directly blamed on lean staffing. Biden for all his pro-union talk intervened to prevent a strike, valuing consumers and capital over the union. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-13/tracking-productivity-in-line-haul-railroads.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-13/tracking-productivity...
      - DrewADesign 1y ago
        Yeah, kind of like when they put ‘style’ on the end of a product that copies the aesthetic of something without functionally being that thing— like a kosher-style deli or a professional-style stove— the mainstream democratic leaders are pro-labor-style politicians.
    - queenkjuul 1y ago
      The infrastructure is horrifying and the railroads do everything possible to defer any and all maintenance. Practically every train arrives late, but the customers can't really do much about it (how else are you going to move 4 million pounds of coal?)
- hamdingers 1y ago
  What does Amtrak have to gain by lying about this?
  - fknorangesite 1y ago
    I am skeptical that Amtrak is outright lying about this, but of course I can imagine the motivation: they get to blame delays on an external factor.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      I don't think anyone is outright lying. I think they are just not telling the full story. What that full story is though I have no idea, nor do I have any way to figure it out. (Any investigative reporters want to spend a year or two tracking this down? Beware that there probably isn't enough interest to pay for the time you spend)
  - Rebelgecko 1y ago
    No idea how true/false the comments are, but one reason to lie would be to scapegoat someone else for Amtrak's problems. If an airline's flights were regularly delayed by 6-24 hours, they'd go out of business
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  I worked for a freight railroad. Amtrak is correct.
  - bichiliad 1y ago
    Hang in there, I hear it’s anything but easy working for freight rail.
    - queenkjuul 1y ago
      I've been out for a couple years and was just a code monkey anyway. But they did treat me poorly, and it was quite shocking seeing how the sausage was made.
jmyeet 1y ago
This is correct but needs more explanation. What the commenter is alluding to is Precision Scheduled Railraoding ("PSR") [1]. Basically this means having really long trains with half the crew and cutting down on safety inspections to increase profits by spending more time delivering freight. It also gets around the Amtrak priority. Why fewer staff? Because you only need one engine crew for a train twice as long. Increasing train length on tracks not designed for it is a safety issue. Think about it, you have a whole bunch of separate carriages. Some are turning because that's wher they are on the track. Others are going uphills, yet others downhill. All of these forces become a problem that arguably increases the likelihood of derailment, the kind of which we had in East Palestine, Ohio a few years ago. The labor situation is so bad that there was the threat of a strike in the Biden administration. For what? Paid sick leave, mainly. Biden got Congress to use their powers to end a strike by "essential" workers and then quietly later went and partially conceded to their demands. Retiring crews haven't been replaced so the labor is at dire levels, all to slightly increase profits. It was estimated that if UP conceded toa ll the union's demands it would reduce their profit by 6%. Not revenue, profit. [1]: https://www.fractracker.org/2024/06/exploring-the-fallout-of-precision-scheduled-rail-a-rail-workers-perspective/ https://www.fractracker.org/2024/06/exploring-the-fallout-of...

oofbey 1y ago

Classic America. Laws favor industry and commerce over individuals. Because lower prices benefits everybody. Uh huh.

bluGill 1y ago

Amtrak says this but the freight disagree. At this point I assume both sides are lieing.

crooked-v 1y ago
Amtrak isn't lying. You can see that the freight trains are too long by literally just watching one.
manquer 1y ago
Having a enforced max length on any route especially those with commuter service is not a bad idea, it is the tendency of freight to scale up the number of cars as much as possible for efficiency, passenger services work better shorter with more frequent services. Yes there are myriad other reasons Amtrak gets delayed, it is not like this is the only bottleneck they have, but that doesn't mean this is not also a key problem.
- tacticus 1y ago
  long trains are great for reducing cost and reducing total profit by delivering slower less frequent services :\
DrewADesign 1y ago
From what people in the industry have told me, freight train management is no less scummy than any other kind of freight transportation management, and they continually make trains longer and longer despite nearly everyone’s objections. Some are miles long so there’s no way engineers can see the front of the train even with a gentle curve, and they’re taking hazardous cargo through populated areas. I’d take Amtrak’s word on it.
- mcv 1y ago
  Wasn't there a big train crash with hazardous materials on an understaffed train a few years ago? And a strike for more sensible working conditions that was struck down by Congress? I love that the US moves so much freight by train rather than truck, but everything I hear about how trains are run in the US sounds terrible.
  - supertrope 1y ago
    The East Palestine, Ohio crash can’t be directly blamed on lean staffing. Biden for all his pro-union talk intervened to prevent a strike, valuing consumers and capital over the union. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-13/tracking-productivity-in-line-haul-railroads.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-13/tracking-productivity...
    - DrewADesign 1y ago
      Yeah, kind of like when they put ‘style’ on the end of a product that copies the aesthetic of something without functionally being that thing— like a kosher-style deli or a professional-style stove— the mainstream democratic leaders are pro-labor-style politicians.
  - queenkjuul 1y ago
    The infrastructure is horrifying and the railroads do everything possible to defer any and all maintenance. Practically every train arrives late, but the customers can't really do much about it (how else are you going to move 4 million pounds of coal?)
hamdingers 1y ago
What does Amtrak have to gain by lying about this?
- fknorangesite 1y ago
  I am skeptical that Amtrak is outright lying about this, but of course I can imagine the motivation: they get to blame delays on an external factor.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    I don't think anyone is outright lying. I think they are just not telling the full story. What that full story is though I have no idea, nor do I have any way to figure it out. (Any investigative reporters want to spend a year or two tracking this down? Beware that there probably isn't enough interest to pay for the time you spend)
- Rebelgecko 1y ago
  No idea how true/false the comments are, but one reason to lie would be to scapegoat someone else for Amtrak's problems. If an airline's flights were regularly delayed by 6-24 hours, they'd go out of business
queenkjuul 1y ago
I worked for a freight railroad. Amtrak is correct.
- bichiliad 1y ago
  Hang in there, I hear it’s anything but easy working for freight rail.
  - queenkjuul 1y ago
    I've been out for a couple years and was just a code monkey anyway. But they did treat me poorly, and it was quite shocking seeing how the sausage was made.

jmyeet 1y ago

This is correct but needs more explanation. What the commenter is alluding to is Precision Scheduled Railraoding ("PSR") [1]. Basically this means having really long trains with half the crew and cutting down on safety inspections to increase profits by spending more time delivering freight. It also gets around the Amtrak priority. Why fewer staff? Because you only need one engine crew for a train twice as long. Increasing train length on tracks not designed for it is a safety issue. Think about it, you have a whole bunch of separate carriages. Some are turning because that's wher they are on the track. Others are going uphills, yet others downhill. All of these forces become a problem that arguably increases the likelihood of derailment, the kind of which we had in East Palestine, Ohio a few years ago. The labor situation is so bad that there was the threat of a strike in the Biden administration. For what? Paid sick leave, mainly. Biden got Congress to use their powers to end a strike by "essential" workers and then quietly later went and partially conceded to their demands. Retiring crews haven't been replaced so the labor is at dire levels, all to slightly increase profits. It was estimated that if UP conceded toa ll the union's demands it would reduce their profit by 6%. Not revenue, profit. [1]: https://www.fractracker.org/2024/06/exploring-the-fallout-of-precision-scheduled-rail-a-rail-workers-perspective/ https://www.fractracker.org/2024/06/exploring-the-fallout-of...