5 ms·

When you compare 1:83 vs 1:2600, it is so big difference, it deserves bold statements. In the UK, there's 1.5 million kids playing footbal. 1:83 ~18000 kids pl

When you compare 1:83 vs 1:2600, it is so big difference, it deserves bold statements. In the UK, there's 1.5 million kids playing footbal. 1:83 ~18000 kids play in any professional club. 1:2600 ~580 kids get to play in Premier League, EFL Championship in a season What is Oxford doing is letting kids who play in absolutely any club, if they go to state school, or only those who got to Premier League, if they go to independent school. Again, it's discrimination so bad it should be illegal.

growse 1y ago
Why do you think the school & A level system is perfectly meritocratic when the evidence squarely suggests it's far from it?
rcxdude 1y ago
And yet students at independent schools are twice as likely to get all As than those at state schools. Do you think it's likely that all the smart students happen to have the means to go to the independent schools? Keep in mind the grades are not the main filter for oxbridge: probably the largest is whether the students apply in the first place, and then the latter is the interview, which matters a lot for determining which people with good enough grades are actually good enough to get in.
- patanegra 1y ago
  Well, isn't it because kids in independent school are in the school from 8am till 6pm, including Saturdays, since the age of 9, and by the age 11 they board, and all their lives revolve around learning? In my sons' prep school, I have seen kids playing musical instruments so good, they could do concerts for a general public. I have seen boys taking GCSEs in Year 6. And 100% of parents are university educated, often high achievers. Don't let me start speaking about Chinese, where kids come from school 6pm, and they often get two more lessons at home (Chinese + music instrument most often). Parents in state schools don't put in even half of the effort on average.
  - growse 1y ago
    > Parents in state schools don't put in even half of the effort on average. I wondered how long it'd be before we'd see "parents who can't afford private education just aren't putting the effort in".
    - patanegra 1y ago
      As if it isn't true. And I say it as someone who went to a state school, just like my parents, grandparents...
      - growse 1y ago
        Poor people just need to try harder, right? Or do they need to just be luckier?
        patanegra 1y ago
        Well, yes. Everyone needs to try harder. In China, they speak about 996 (working 9am to 9pm 6 days a week; and since we speak about education, Chinese kids often learn from 7am up to 9pm, and when they are getting ready for University, they pull 12–14 hours a day consistently), in Europe, we speak about working only 4 days a week, and whether it is bad for kids to have homeworks. We all, in Europe, should speak about working a bit harder. Especially those, who are not happy with where they are.
        asib 1y ago
        > We all, in Europe, should speak about working a bit harder. Especially those, who are not happy with where they are. There are plenty of people who are not happy with where they are despite working hard. This "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is cancer to the problem, it solves nothing. Talking about a 6 day work week aspirationally is truly odd. There are parents of independent school kids who do not work 6 day weeks, I'd dare to wager many of them. It's foolish and naive to assume that grinding harder is the way to make up the difference.

growse 1y ago

Why do you think the school & A level system is perfectly meritocratic when the evidence squarely suggests it's far from it?

rcxdude 1y ago

And yet students at independent schools are twice as likely to get all As than those at state schools. Do you think it's likely that all the smart students happen to have the means to go to the independent schools? Keep in mind the grades are not the main filter for oxbridge: probably the largest is whether the students apply in the first place, and then the latter is the interview, which matters a lot for determining which people with good enough grades are actually good enough to get in.

patanegra 1y ago
Well, isn't it because kids in independent school are in the school from 8am till 6pm, including Saturdays, since the age of 9, and by the age 11 they board, and all their lives revolve around learning? In my sons' prep school, I have seen kids playing musical instruments so good, they could do concerts for a general public. I have seen boys taking GCSEs in Year 6. And 100% of parents are university educated, often high achievers. Don't let me start speaking about Chinese, where kids come from school 6pm, and they often get two more lessons at home (Chinese + music instrument most often). Parents in state schools don't put in even half of the effort on average.
- growse 1y ago
  > Parents in state schools don't put in even half of the effort on average. I wondered how long it'd be before we'd see "parents who can't afford private education just aren't putting the effort in".
  - patanegra 1y ago
    As if it isn't true. And I say it as someone who went to a state school, just like my parents, grandparents...
    - growse 1y ago
      Poor people just need to try harder, right? Or do they need to just be luckier?
      - patanegra 1y ago
        Well, yes. Everyone needs to try harder. In China, they speak about 996 (working 9am to 9pm 6 days a week; and since we speak about education, Chinese kids often learn from 7am up to 9pm, and when they are getting ready for University, they pull 12–14 hours a day consistently), in Europe, we speak about working only 4 days a week, and whether it is bad for kids to have homeworks. We all, in Europe, should speak about working a bit harder. Especially those, who are not happy with where they are.
        asib 1y ago
        > We all, in Europe, should speak about working a bit harder. Especially those, who are not happy with where they are. There are plenty of people who are not happy with where they are despite working hard. This "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is cancer to the problem, it solves nothing. Talking about a 6 day work week aspirationally is truly odd. There are parents of independent school kids who do not work 6 day weeks, I'd dare to wager many of them. It's foolish and naive to assume that grinding harder is the way to make up the difference.