5 ms·

> The very top aren't applying there any more at all, you don't need to: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, all better. The only people applying to those from the UK are

by growse 1y ago

> The very top aren't applying there any more at all, you don't need to: Stanford, Harvard, MIT, all better. The only people applying to those from the UK are the wealthy. If by "very top" you mean "richest", then maybe. But I'm not sure we care about that?

ralph84 1y ago
The network value of knowing a rich person far exceeds the network value of knowing a smart person.
- odyssey7 1y ago
  How are we valuing the network? There are doors that many wealthy people would not be able to open and vice-versa. On the other hand, someone both smart and wealthy... Sam Altman comes to mind, as well as a number of other figures of historic importance.
- programjames 1y ago
  If you're measuring the value in dollars, it would be very surprising if people maxxed on the INT stat rank higher than those on the USD stat. But, for example, if your goal is to secure a professorship at a top university, or do the most cutting-edge research at a national lab, I think the network value of knowing a smart person far exceeds that of a rich person.
- OhMeadhbh 1y ago
  Kind of depends. Attending a service academy in the states is a VERY GOOD IDEA if you want to make being a military officer your career. But yes, I take your point for the general case. However... some of the best business contacts I have came from teaching at a trade school in Texas. But I'm just selling solutions into SMEs, I'm not baby-sitting kids with VC funds.
- btilly 1y ago
  This is why https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2015/10/29/our-first-ever-college-rankings https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2015/10/29/our-firs... concluded that the best university in the USA is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University. For this they measured the gap between what graduates made, and what they would be expected to make based on high school record, test scores, and choice of major. In other words, "How much do you earn because of the university you went to, rather than your own virtues?" That university won because it has a network rich people who could help people's careers get a good launch.
skippyboxedhero 1y ago
No, you can get a scholarship. Again, this is really the best of the best, those with the highest merit. If you have that, why would you study somewhere that has no people of merit? All they had to do was convince a bureaucrat their life was hard (usually based on rather unobjective criteria), everyone else has to pass exams. If you can't get the grades, you don't have merit. Debase the currency, surprised when it has less value? Lol.
- growse 1y ago
  > No, you can get a scholarship Of course! So easy! What percentage of foreign students applying get aid or scholarships? > Again, this is really the best of the best, those with the highest merit. You're assuming that "the best of the best" are applying. This is not true. "The best of the best who are encouraged to apply and/or have the means", apply. This is not the same population. > All they had to do was convince a bureaucrat their life was hard I don't know who this "bureaucrat" is. When I interviewed at Cambridge I was seen by 3 fellows, all members of the relevant departments. > If you can't get the grades, you don't have merit. Nobody's this naive, surely?
  - krastanov 1y ago
    While I sympathize with some of your arguments, you are wrong about scholarships. Getting financial aid as a foreign student at an institution like Harvard, Yale, or MIT is the norm.
    - Retric 1y ago
      Some financial aid isn’t the same as being able to afford to go to a college in another country across an ocean. Collage loans seem like a great solution when you’re entering a highly lucrative career, but that’s not true for every top student.
      - growse 1y ago
        Not least to say that most kids don't want to go to university thousands of miles away from their family, friends, and support networks.
OJFord 1y ago
I applied to MIT from the UK 15 years ago, I'm fairly sure I'm not among whom you mean by 'the wealthy'. (I failed the alumnus interview; failed STEP mathematics exam to meet accepted Cambridge offer; went to Imperial.) Not to say I'm (nor was) 'the very top' either - I just liked the idea of MIT for the same reason Imperial appealed I suppose.

by growse 1y ago

ralph84 1y ago

The network value of knowing a rich person far exceeds the network value of knowing a smart person.

odyssey7 1y ago
How are we valuing the network? There are doors that many wealthy people would not be able to open and vice-versa. On the other hand, someone both smart and wealthy... Sam Altman comes to mind, as well as a number of other figures of historic importance.
programjames 1y ago
If you're measuring the value in dollars, it would be very surprising if people maxxed on the INT stat rank higher than those on the USD stat. But, for example, if your goal is to secure a professorship at a top university, or do the most cutting-edge research at a national lab, I think the network value of knowing a smart person far exceeds that of a rich person.
OhMeadhbh 1y ago
Kind of depends. Attending a service academy in the states is a VERY GOOD IDEA if you want to make being a military officer your career. But yes, I take your point for the general case. However... some of the best business contacts I have came from teaching at a trade school in Texas. But I'm just selling solutions into SMEs, I'm not baby-sitting kids with VC funds.
btilly 1y ago
This is why https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2015/10/29/our-first-ever-college-rankings https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2015/10/29/our-firs... concluded that the best university in the USA is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University. For this they measured the gap between what graduates made, and what they would be expected to make based on high school record, test scores, and choice of major. In other words, "How much do you earn because of the university you went to, rather than your own virtues?" That university won because it has a network rich people who could help people's careers get a good launch.

skippyboxedhero 1y ago

No, you can get a scholarship. Again, this is really the best of the best, those with the highest merit. If you have that, why would you study somewhere that has no people of merit? All they had to do was convince a bureaucrat their life was hard (usually based on rather unobjective criteria), everyone else has to pass exams. If you can't get the grades, you don't have merit. Debase the currency, surprised when it has less value? Lol.

growse 1y ago
> No, you can get a scholarship Of course! So easy! What percentage of foreign students applying get aid or scholarships? > Again, this is really the best of the best, those with the highest merit. You're assuming that "the best of the best" are applying. This is not true. "The best of the best who are encouraged to apply and/or have the means", apply. This is not the same population. > All they had to do was convince a bureaucrat their life was hard I don't know who this "bureaucrat" is. When I interviewed at Cambridge I was seen by 3 fellows, all members of the relevant departments. > If you can't get the grades, you don't have merit. Nobody's this naive, surely?
- krastanov 1y ago
  While I sympathize with some of your arguments, you are wrong about scholarships. Getting financial aid as a foreign student at an institution like Harvard, Yale, or MIT is the norm.
  - Retric 1y ago
    Some financial aid isn’t the same as being able to afford to go to a college in another country across an ocean. Collage loans seem like a great solution when you’re entering a highly lucrative career, but that’s not true for every top student.
    - growse 1y ago
      Not least to say that most kids don't want to go to university thousands of miles away from their family, friends, and support networks.

OJFord 1y ago

I applied to MIT from the UK 15 years ago, I'm fairly sure I'm not among whom you mean by 'the wealthy'. (I failed the alumnus interview; failed STEP mathematics exam to meet accepted Cambridge offer; went to Imperial.) Not to say I'm (nor was) 'the very top' either - I just liked the idea of MIT for the same reason Imperial appealed I suppose.