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The US has always been a very moralistic country. From banning alcohol and burning witches to its long struggle to accept differences (in skin color, gender or

by herval 1y ago

The US has always been a very moralistic country. From banning alcohol and burning witches to its long struggle to accept differences (in skin color, gender or even the definition of freedom). “Cancel culture” is part of America since its foundation. It’s a moral tug of war. It’s a different thing altogether to have the government itself weaponize “cancel culture”, however. As much as right wing people like to scream that “democrats are the same”, there’s little evidence of the same level of systemic abuse and disregard for institutions in the name of revenge (“if the left cancels, I can cancel too”). It’s a flight from moral infighting to authoritarian rule.

throwawaymaths 1y ago
> there’s little evidence of the same level of systemic abuse and disregard for institutions in the name of revenge If you think that, you've not been paying attention. Both sides doing it is disgusting and I think the right does it more than the left (at this point in time), but the left DOES do it.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- herval 1y ago
  Great argument, congratulations
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 1y ago
> little evidence of the same level of systemic abuse You not looking for it doesn't mean "little evidence." It's well documented that the previous administration pressured social media to silence views it didn't like, as well as instances of debanking conservative organizations. That's not to say this administration doesn't throw its weight around, too, but to think it's only one side make you complicit in the problem.
- herval 1y ago
  Some individuals from the previous administration asking a donor to do something is not exactly the same thing as the president FORCING someone to do it and demanding bribes or else they’ll impose fines on the business (which he then proceeds to do anyway, eg with Nvidia) You’re quite literally a character from the book in this post, if you think they’re equivalent (your argument is verbatim what one of the nazis interviewed uses to justify having supported hitler)
  - Jensson 1y ago
    They were making large overreaches and censorship, thinking anything else also makes you a person from this book. This report was written when Biden was still in power, it details how they did pressure companies to censor material and not just friendly suggestions: https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/weaponization-committee-exposes-biden-white-house-censorship-regime-new-report https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/weaponizati... Authoritarianism getting dialed up and voters having less power is bipartisan, this cannot get fixed by just changing one side. As long as democrats keeps ramping up republicans will feel like they have to ramp up as well, and vice versa, democrats ramp up since they feel republicans ramp up. You can't get out of this by just changing one side.
    - herval 1y ago
      So you think “both sides are the same” and that democrats “ramping up republicans” legitimizes what the government is currently doing, all based on a report by the judiciary that’s controlled by the current administration?
      - Jensson 1y ago
        Why would I think that? I just dislike how Americans refuse to criticize their own side when they do bad things and I feel that is the biggest problem you have. Most people don't switch side over small differences, so as long as Democrats continue to follow Republicans into becoming worse and worse nothing will change. And why do I complain about Democrats? Because you should try to convince the reasonable one, you can't change Trump, but you can maybe change Democrats. But as long as Democrats continue to play along you are doomed, if not this term it will be the next or the one after that, but at some point it will happen. And no, no amount of "Trump is the devil, see all he has done" will make people stop voting for him. You have to improve the democrats, not throw more shit at Trump. The 2024 election was lost by the Democrats, it was not won by Trump. Trump didn't get more votes in 2024 than 2020, but he won anyway since democrats got so many fewer votes.

by herval 1y ago

throwawaymaths 1y ago

> there’s little evidence of the same level of systemic abuse and disregard for institutions in the name of revenge If you think that, you've not been paying attention. Both sides doing it is disgusting and I think the right does it more than the left (at this point in time), but the left DOES do it.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
herval 1y ago
Great argument, congratulations

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 1y ago

> little evidence of the same level of systemic abuse You not looking for it doesn't mean "little evidence." It's well documented that the previous administration pressured social media to silence views it didn't like, as well as instances of debanking conservative organizations. That's not to say this administration doesn't throw its weight around, too, but to think it's only one side make you complicit in the problem.

herval 1y ago
Some individuals from the previous administration asking a donor to do something is not exactly the same thing as the president FORCING someone to do it and demanding bribes or else they’ll impose fines on the business (which he then proceeds to do anyway, eg with Nvidia) You’re quite literally a character from the book in this post, if you think they’re equivalent (your argument is verbatim what one of the nazis interviewed uses to justify having supported hitler)
- Jensson 1y ago
  They were making large overreaches and censorship, thinking anything else also makes you a person from this book. This report was written when Biden was still in power, it details how they did pressure companies to censor material and not just friendly suggestions: https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/weaponization-committee-exposes-biden-white-house-censorship-regime-new-report https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/weaponizati... Authoritarianism getting dialed up and voters having less power is bipartisan, this cannot get fixed by just changing one side. As long as democrats keeps ramping up republicans will feel like they have to ramp up as well, and vice versa, democrats ramp up since they feel republicans ramp up. You can't get out of this by just changing one side.
  - herval 1y ago
    So you think “both sides are the same” and that democrats “ramping up republicans” legitimizes what the government is currently doing, all based on a report by the judiciary that’s controlled by the current administration?
    - Jensson 1y ago
      Why would I think that? I just dislike how Americans refuse to criticize their own side when they do bad things and I feel that is the biggest problem you have. Most people don't switch side over small differences, so as long as Democrats continue to follow Republicans into becoming worse and worse nothing will change. And why do I complain about Democrats? Because you should try to convince the reasonable one, you can't change Trump, but you can maybe change Democrats. But as long as Democrats continue to play along you are doomed, if not this term it will be the next or the one after that, but at some point it will happen. And no, no amount of "Trump is the devil, see all he has done" will make people stop voting for him. You have to improve the democrats, not throw more shit at Trump. The 2024 election was lost by the Democrats, it was not won by Trump. Trump didn't get more votes in 2024 than 2020, but he won anyway since democrats got so many fewer votes.