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The book talks about the conditions when she was fired. She was suffering from life threatening medical problems from complications from a pregnancy. Not hard t

The book talks about the conditions when she was fired. She was suffering from life threatening medical problems from complications from a pregnancy. Not hard to see these terms as coerced given the medical and financial problems she was facing at the time.

crazygringo 1y ago
Can you elaborate on the financial problems she was facing? She seems to have been a highly paid Facebook exec who would have had great health insurance. And if her employment was in the US she could keep that insurance through COBRA for between 18 and 36 months. Life threatening medical problems are obviously horrific and she has my full sympathies. But I'm having a tough time drawing a from that to "coercion" for someone who was a director at Facebook.
- giancarlostoro 1y ago
  COBRA means you pay the full cost of the insurance. So suddenly instead of paying $150 you are now seeing a $500 or more bill, especially if your employer is a major company that pays for all sorts of benefits. COBRA is a joke when you consider you just lost all source of income.
  - loeg 1y ago
    Again, something that could be a hardship for a junior employee, but she was a director.
  - lokar 1y ago
    And you pay 102% of what the plan costs, and Meta has a truly deluxe plan, the COBRA fee is enormous
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    The point is, you're not suddenly facing ruinous bankrupting medical expenses. You're continuing your health insurance. You're paying for your insurance, not your medical care. She was an executive at Facebook. If she hasn't saved enough for COBRA then I don't even know what to say.
    - tbrownaw 1y ago
      IIRC, part of the reason that so many countries have specific "here's money specifically for retirement" things (pensions, 401k here in the US) is that many people just don't plan far ahead very well.
      - crazygringo 1y ago
        If entry-level and lower-paid workers aren't saving money then that's understandable. That's why these government programs exist. If you're an executive at Facebook, I think you have the ability to plan things well. If you still can't save any money, at that point it's hard to see how it's not just your fault.
        Arainach 1y ago
        She wasn't an executive in the sense you're thinking and certainly wasn't hired as one. She was hired to work in an area Zuckerberg never cared about and never gave anywhere near sufficient resources to.
        crazygringo 1y ago
        She's described as an executive and as a director in articles. I don't know what other sense there is? And what possible relevance is there of the relationship between her role and what Zuck thought? I'm sure Zuck doesn't care much about accounting or HR either. Lots of well paid executives work in areas of corporations that aren't the founder's main focus. That's the kind of problem most people would love to have.
        Arainach 1y ago
        Directing an area is very different from the title (or compensation) of Director, and it's certainly not equivalent to Director in a tech organization. SWW was hired as "Manager of Global Public Policy" but the book never indicates that she ever has reports or is a manager in that sense, which is generally a requirement to be understood or perceived as a "Director". If you're surprised media articles don't ask questions and get basic facts wrong, go read any article about a topic you have direct experience with.
  - sporkxrocket 1y ago
    If you have a family COBRA will be $2k-3k a month.
  - notlisted 1y ago
    $500? Ours was $2800/mo for a family of three and this was 2018 (Not FANG, big pharma) Yes the original plan was great. No, we didn't need a plan that great. No we couldn't "downgrade". With the bigger income suddenly gone, coming up with $2800/mo in cash was a huge problem. COBRA is useless for many/most, unless your coverage is shite and the cost to the employer low.
    - giancarlostoro 1y ago
      I forget what mine was, but with $0 coming in a month, it was just not worth it.
- jordanb 1y ago
  She reported not being particularly high paid compared to her peers. When she was hired Facebook didn't care at all about her area (government relations). As that became more important her role grew but she was never really promoted. She also was not well informed about how tech compensation works and negotiated poorly (no stock) she came from an NGO background in New Zealand. Her salary was probably quite a bit more than the average American but she was living in expensive areas (DC and SV) and interacting with extremely wealthy people. At one point Sheryl Sandburg got annoyed that she was leaving work for childcare and told her to hire a live-in nanny. She was living paycheck-to-paycheck on a high income with no wealth accumulation (many such cases).
  - AdrianB1 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    OK, then honestly it's hard for me to have any sympathy for the idea that she was "coerced". She was being paid lots... but wasn't getting paid even more? If you're an executive at Facebook, you should know how to research negotiation and compensation, and figure out a living situation where you're saving money. You're in the big leagues. If Sheryl expected her to be able to hire a full time nanny, then that's an excellent time to renegotiate a salary than can afford that. If you're an entry-level worker who can't make ends meet in San Fran then of course I sympathize greatly! But if you're an executive at Facebook making enough money that you can even consider a full time nanny... you're not facing any level of "hardship" by which an offer of even more money in exchange for non-disparagement could be considered "coercion". Nobody is in poverty here. Nobody is going to wind up hungry or on the street.
    - lucyjojo 1y ago
      Apparently she was living paycheck to paycheck (from what other people said on this thread). So yes, she was 1-3 months away of poverty while caring for a baby. Poverty can come really quickly, you just need a few incidents to stack.
fsckboy 1y ago
when you are fired, you are free to disparage your former employer. she was not free to do that because she signed away that right, and you can only sign away something in exchange for something, which she obviously took. when you don't mention or acknowledge this aspect, you are not making a convincing argument. perhaps they gave her a very attractive severance package, and you don't know that they didn't, so how can you draw a conclusion? life threatening health problems is not a free pass to "i get whatever i want", not for me, not for you, and not for her, although we know that in the world of Karens it is an entitlement.

crazygringo 1y ago

Can you elaborate on the financial problems she was facing? She seems to have been a highly paid Facebook exec who would have had great health insurance. And if her employment was in the US she could keep that insurance through COBRA for between 18 and 36 months. Life threatening medical problems are obviously horrific and she has my full sympathies. But I'm having a tough time drawing a from that to "coercion" for someone who was a director at Facebook.

giancarlostoro 1y ago
COBRA means you pay the full cost of the insurance. So suddenly instead of paying $150 you are now seeing a $500 or more bill, especially if your employer is a major company that pays for all sorts of benefits. COBRA is a joke when you consider you just lost all source of income.
- loeg 1y ago
  Again, something that could be a hardship for a junior employee, but she was a director.
- lokar 1y ago
  And you pay 102% of what the plan costs, and Meta has a truly deluxe plan, the COBRA fee is enormous
- crazygringo 1y ago
  The point is, you're not suddenly facing ruinous bankrupting medical expenses. You're continuing your health insurance. You're paying for your insurance, not your medical care. She was an executive at Facebook. If she hasn't saved enough for COBRA then I don't even know what to say.
  - tbrownaw 1y ago
    IIRC, part of the reason that so many countries have specific "here's money specifically for retirement" things (pensions, 401k here in the US) is that many people just don't plan far ahead very well.
    - crazygringo 1y ago
      If entry-level and lower-paid workers aren't saving money then that's understandable. That's why these government programs exist. If you're an executive at Facebook, I think you have the ability to plan things well. If you still can't save any money, at that point it's hard to see how it's not just your fault.
      - Arainach 1y ago
        She wasn't an executive in the sense you're thinking and certainly wasn't hired as one. She was hired to work in an area Zuckerberg never cared about and never gave anywhere near sufficient resources to.
        crazygringo 1y ago
        She's described as an executive and as a director in articles. I don't know what other sense there is? And what possible relevance is there of the relationship between her role and what Zuck thought? I'm sure Zuck doesn't care much about accounting or HR either. Lots of well paid executives work in areas of corporations that aren't the founder's main focus. That's the kind of problem most people would love to have.
        Arainach 1y ago
        Directing an area is very different from the title (or compensation) of Director, and it's certainly not equivalent to Director in a tech organization. SWW was hired as "Manager of Global Public Policy" but the book never indicates that she ever has reports or is a manager in that sense, which is generally a requirement to be understood or perceived as a "Director". If you're surprised media articles don't ask questions and get basic facts wrong, go read any article about a topic you have direct experience with.
- sporkxrocket 1y ago
  If you have a family COBRA will be $2k-3k a month.
- notlisted 1y ago
  $500? Ours was $2800/mo for a family of three and this was 2018 (Not FANG, big pharma) Yes the original plan was great. No, we didn't need a plan that great. No we couldn't "downgrade". With the bigger income suddenly gone, coming up with $2800/mo in cash was a huge problem. COBRA is useless for many/most, unless your coverage is shite and the cost to the employer low.
  - giancarlostoro 1y ago
    I forget what mine was, but with $0 coming in a month, it was just not worth it.
jordanb 1y ago
She reported not being particularly high paid compared to her peers. When she was hired Facebook didn't care at all about her area (government relations). As that became more important her role grew but she was never really promoted. She also was not well informed about how tech compensation works and negotiated poorly (no stock) she came from an NGO background in New Zealand. Her salary was probably quite a bit more than the average American but she was living in expensive areas (DC and SV) and interacting with extremely wealthy people. At one point Sheryl Sandburg got annoyed that she was leaving work for childcare and told her to hire a live-in nanny. She was living paycheck-to-paycheck on a high income with no wealth accumulation (many such cases).
- AdrianB1 1y ago
  [flagged]
- crazygringo 1y ago
  OK, then honestly it's hard for me to have any sympathy for the idea that she was "coerced". She was being paid lots... but wasn't getting paid even more? If you're an executive at Facebook, you should know how to research negotiation and compensation, and figure out a living situation where you're saving money. You're in the big leagues. If Sheryl expected her to be able to hire a full time nanny, then that's an excellent time to renegotiate a salary than can afford that. If you're an entry-level worker who can't make ends meet in San Fran then of course I sympathize greatly! But if you're an executive at Facebook making enough money that you can even consider a full time nanny... you're not facing any level of "hardship" by which an offer of even more money in exchange for non-disparagement could be considered "coercion". Nobody is in poverty here. Nobody is going to wind up hungry or on the street.
  - lucyjojo 1y ago
    Apparently she was living paycheck to paycheck (from what other people said on this thread). So yes, she was 1-3 months away of poverty while caring for a baby. Poverty can come really quickly, you just need a few incidents to stack.

fsckboy 1y ago

when you are fired, you are free to disparage your former employer. she was not free to do that because she signed away that right, and you can only sign away something in exchange for something, which she obviously took. when you don't mention or acknowledge this aspect, you are not making a convincing argument. perhaps they gave her a very attractive severance package, and you don't know that they didn't, so how can you draw a conclusion? life threatening health problems is not a free pass to "i get whatever i want", not for me, not for you, and not for her, although we know that in the world of Karens it is an entitlement.