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There are clearly very many countries that tick most of those boxes. Including some that i wouldn't necessarily define as fascist. Prominent examples are China,

There are clearly very many countries that tick most of those boxes. Including some that i wouldn't necessarily define as fascist. Prominent examples are China, Russia, Iran North Korea and other middle eastern countries. I'm not saying this list is incorrect, per se, but it is vague to the point of uselessness.

thrance 1y ago
I mean, as far as fascist states go China, Russia and North Korea are pretty up there? In the original "14 points" [0], the author explains this is not an exhaustive checklist that makes something fascist if it ticks all of the items, and gives motivation for such a list. Go read it if you have time to, it's rather short and well written. > Fascism became an all-purpose term because one can eliminate from a fascist regime one or more features, and it will still be recognizable as fascist. Take away imperialism from fascism and you still have Franco and Salazar. Take away colonialism and you still have the Balkan fascism of the Ustashes. Add to the Italian fascism a radical anti-capitalism (which never much fascinated Mussolini) and you have Ezra Pound. Add a cult of Celtic mythology and the Grail mysticism (completely alien to official fascism) and you have one of the most respected fascist gurus, Julius Evola. > But in spite of this fuzziness, I think it is possible to outline a list of features that are typical of what I would like to call Ur-Fascism, or Eternal Fascism. These features cannot be organized into a system; many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it. [0] https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci...
brightball 1y ago
Authoritarianism is IMO the common thread whether you’re talking about fascism or communism. At the root, there’s either principled freedom or control.
thomassmith65 1y ago
1930s fascism can never occur again. It was a product of its time. But the psychology behind fascism stems from deep human quirks and is something eternal. All those nations, except perhaps China, share the DNA. If we didn't already have names for their systems, we probably would describe them as fascistic. What Trump has turned the American government into is closer to Fascism than to Liberal Democracy, no? In future highschool textbooks Trump Fascism will have its own name ("Trashism" perhaps?) but it will be placed in the same chapter as the others.
- nerdponx 1y ago
  It's inaccurate to blame Trump. He is a greedy egotistical idiot. Blaming Trump is like blaming a rock that hit you in the head. Look up and pay attention to who threw the rock. Blame them. The Trump presidency is the culmination of a roughly 45 year campaign to return the United States to the Gilded Age, and to ensure it stays that way until it's bled dry and nothing remains of its corpse. The political and social problems that led to his second election have been a long time coming. What's interesting is that the gaps in our political system that allow him to do so many illegal and distasteful things have always been there. The framers of the constitution never anticipated all three branches of government colluding together in alignment and bad faith, with the vociferous support of roughly half the voting population.
  - thomassmith65 1y ago
    A country doesn't become fascist solely because of one man. If my previous comment implies that, I worded it poorly. If I blame anyone it's the American electorate. It's tempting to continue and discuss which phenomena I blame for the poor judgment of the average American, but that would triple the length of my comment.
    - nerdponx 1y ago
      The American electorate, especially the group that voted for Trump, has been abused by their federal and often also state governments, sometimes for decades. Not everyone is a good person and not everyone can be "saved" for lack of a better term. But by and large their support for Trump is rooted in desperation, and they have been cruelly manipulated by a powerful propaganda machine. Many of Trump's supporters already are or soon will be his victims.
      - thomassmith65 1y ago
        Maybe desperation is warranted, or maybe social media has distorted reality. Either way, it's beside the point: if there is one lesson to remember from the 20th Century it is 'never support an authoritarian'.

thrance 1y ago

I mean, as far as fascist states go China, Russia and North Korea are pretty up there? In the original "14 points" [0], the author explains this is not an exhaustive checklist that makes something fascist if it ticks all of the items, and gives motivation for such a list. Go read it if you have time to, it's rather short and well written. > Fascism became an all-purpose term because one can eliminate from a fascist regime one or more features, and it will still be recognizable as fascist. Take away imperialism from fascism and you still have Franco and Salazar. Take away colonialism and you still have the Balkan fascism of the Ustashes. Add to the Italian fascism a radical anti-capitalism (which never much fascinated Mussolini) and you have Ezra Pound. Add a cult of Celtic mythology and the Grail mysticism (completely alien to official fascism) and you have one of the most respected fascist gurus, Julius Evola. > But in spite of this fuzziness, I think it is possible to outline a list of features that are typical of what I would like to call Ur-Fascism, or Eternal Fascism. These features cannot be organized into a system; many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it. [0] https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci...

brightball 1y ago

Authoritarianism is IMO the common thread whether you’re talking about fascism or communism. At the root, there’s either principled freedom or control.

thomassmith65 1y ago

1930s fascism can never occur again. It was a product of its time. But the psychology behind fascism stems from deep human quirks and is something eternal. All those nations, except perhaps China, share the DNA. If we didn't already have names for their systems, we probably would describe them as fascistic. What Trump has turned the American government into is closer to Fascism than to Liberal Democracy, no? In future highschool textbooks Trump Fascism will have its own name ("Trashism" perhaps?) but it will be placed in the same chapter as the others.

nerdponx 1y ago
It's inaccurate to blame Trump. He is a greedy egotistical idiot. Blaming Trump is like blaming a rock that hit you in the head. Look up and pay attention to who threw the rock. Blame them. The Trump presidency is the culmination of a roughly 45 year campaign to return the United States to the Gilded Age, and to ensure it stays that way until it's bled dry and nothing remains of its corpse. The political and social problems that led to his second election have been a long time coming. What's interesting is that the gaps in our political system that allow him to do so many illegal and distasteful things have always been there. The framers of the constitution never anticipated all three branches of government colluding together in alignment and bad faith, with the vociferous support of roughly half the voting population.
- thomassmith65 1y ago
  A country doesn't become fascist solely because of one man. If my previous comment implies that, I worded it poorly. If I blame anyone it's the American electorate. It's tempting to continue and discuss which phenomena I blame for the poor judgment of the average American, but that would triple the length of my comment.
  - nerdponx 1y ago
    The American electorate, especially the group that voted for Trump, has been abused by their federal and often also state governments, sometimes for decades. Not everyone is a good person and not everyone can be "saved" for lack of a better term. But by and large their support for Trump is rooted in desperation, and they have been cruelly manipulated by a powerful propaganda machine. Many of Trump's supporters already are or soon will be his victims.
    - thomassmith65 1y ago
      Maybe desperation is warranted, or maybe social media has distorted reality. Either way, it's beside the point: if there is one lesson to remember from the 20th Century it is 'never support an authoritarian'.