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I guess I don't know a lot about the abilities of the elderly in Australia, or even the social expectations put on them by persons like yourself with a strong w

I guess I don't know a lot about the abilities of the elderly in Australia, or even the social expectations put on them by persons like yourself with a strong worldview that you expect others to agree with. I am still seeing a problem with the budget and timeline. It seems it isn't as easy to build an apartment in a backyard since the point of the article is that it didn't work out, and commonly most elderly people and their families don't have metalworking and foundation and plumbing and electrical experience. Even if your mother is excellent at tiling floors, which I don't doubt.

defrost 1y ago
Couple of points, * the article is about financial pressures of younger Australians, this is a real problem. * An example of that is this story of an older person handing over life savings to a younger family member to build a granny flat, the implication, to my eye at least, isn't that the budget was insufficient rather the family member didn't carry through on the promise due to issues they had, likely their own financial pressures leading to money being bled off and a lack of time to carry through. * and commonly most elderly people and their families don't have metalworking and foundation and plumbing and electrical experience. What do you consider elderly? I'm at retirement age ion Australia and I was born in a time when the demographics skewed non-urban .. most Australians of that time had rural experience which means most Australians of that era had exposure to hands on dirty work .. they might go to Uni to study Law but they still have hands on experience digging a trench and helping out building a brick wall, paving, etc. Again, it's not a case of skill shortage in the elderly ... it was a presumably younger Australian that likely lacked the skills to carry through and additional pressures that likely caused them to skim the budget despite best intentions. Again, an insulated prefab kit shed variation modified to be habitable should cost less than AU $70K assembled .. the last shed I had built had the right footprint but was bare bones (no plumbing, no electrics, no insulation, no fridges, etc) and was AU $10K mostly built by others (my father, born 1935, did the ground work and form work for me as I was out of the country at the time) - I just funded materials and additional labour. Currently I live in a rural West Australian town with a median age of 64 (half the town 64 or under, the half 64 or older) most people stay active into their 80s and many have hobbies such as raising sheep, miniature donkeys, maintaining vintage cars, building rat-trucks, fire and rescue services, etc. In the past five years I've helped build (no charge, it's a friend of a friend thing) four habitable "granny flats" - single occupant outhouses on existing land with other houses - these have been revamped tool barns, fresh builds, "lean-to" extensions, etc. - all have come in under $50K total. I have a background in pure applied math, traveled for work (geophysical exploration and mapping) to two thirds of the worlds countries (although some them only count as multiple entries in a survey aircraft flipping about while doing survey lines in a primary country), have some million SLOC of mapping and geophysical code behind me in addition to some funky abstract symbolic algebra coding on the CAYLEY|MAGMA system and other stuff, and paid my way through university working in mining companies (labouring, Haul Pak driving, etc) and cattle stations (mustering, etc). I know a great many Australians my age with similar capabilities. You may have read a little Greg Egan, for example.
- leakycap 1y ago
  > You may have read a little Greg Egan, for example. No, I'm still focused on the article we're discussing here. However, by word count, you may have written more about the abilities of geriatric builders in Australia than anyone else to this point.
  - defrost 1y ago
    Let's circle back to your progenitor questions and statements then: > In what recent decade could anyone even dream of $46,700 USD being enough for a quickly-built, furnished apartment to be built in a backyard with working laundry? This decade, it's entirely doable, in Australia, by many but not all Australians that range in age from early twenties through to mid eighties. > This sounds like it fell apart because it was never going to work and was an attempt by a family member to help an aged person who was in a bind of their own making via lack of planning. It fell apart most likely because the family member that made a promise and took money lacked staging experience and was over confident. > Seems the article could make a better impact if it had some better examples of the issue. The article certainly needs a much better example of younger Australians ripping off older Australians as this doesn't appear to be a case of intentional deceptive fraud at all, more well intentioned incompetence. > As presented, it sounds like "Nurse Joan" should have planned for retirement. That's a bit harsh, she had super annunciation sufficient to get a simple small building together, access to land within the family, and due a pension at 67 onwards after a lifetime of service to others in heath care. Life being what it is it's likely various road bumps occurred along the way. > you may have written more about the abilities of geriatric builders in Australia than anyone else to this point. Given no one else responded a single word would have crossed that threshold - you're welcome. Again, there's no requirement that the builders here be geriatric, just a note that many Australians in their 50s, 60s and older actively build stuff. eg: Colin here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/australian-first-mini-pumped-hydro-scheme-wa-walpole/104655498 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/australian-first-mini...
    - leakycap 1y ago
      I wonder why you are so sure it is easy & possible but the person in the article failed to even have a habitable space in the time and budget allowed. Again, post as many links of older people building a space ship if you'd like, it does not change the fact that most retirees aren't able to run their own plumbing for the laundry room Nurse Joan wishes she'd had. It sounds like you have everything you need, including family help, to get a great business going in Australia building unbelievably cheap housing by and for the elderly. Could be a life-changing operation if you can pull it off, and based on your posts you seem extremely confident. Are you doing something more important than housing the elderly with your day to day life? If not, what is holding you back?

defrost 1y ago

Couple of points, * the article is about financial pressures of younger Australians, this is a real problem. * An example of that is this story of an older person handing over life savings to a younger family member to build a granny flat, the implication, to my eye at least, isn't that the budget was insufficient rather the family member didn't carry through on the promise due to issues they had, likely their own financial pressures leading to money being bled off and a lack of time to carry through. * and commonly most elderly people and their families don't have metalworking and foundation and plumbing and electrical experience. What do you consider elderly? I'm at retirement age ion Australia and I was born in a time when the demographics skewed non-urban .. most Australians of that time had rural experience which means most Australians of that era had exposure to hands on dirty work .. they might go to Uni to study Law but they still have hands on experience digging a trench and helping out building a brick wall, paving, etc. Again, it's not a case of skill shortage in the elderly ... it was a presumably younger Australian that likely lacked the skills to carry through and additional pressures that likely caused them to skim the budget despite best intentions. Again, an insulated prefab kit shed variation modified to be habitable should cost less than AU $70K assembled .. the last shed I had built had the right footprint but was bare bones (no plumbing, no electrics, no insulation, no fridges, etc) and was AU $10K mostly built by others (my father, born 1935, did the ground work and form work for me as I was out of the country at the time) - I just funded materials and additional labour. Currently I live in a rural West Australian town with a median age of 64 (half the town 64 or under, the half 64 or older) most people stay active into their 80s and many have hobbies such as raising sheep, miniature donkeys, maintaining vintage cars, building rat-trucks, fire and rescue services, etc. In the past five years I've helped build (no charge, it's a friend of a friend thing) four habitable "granny flats" - single occupant outhouses on existing land with other houses - these have been revamped tool barns, fresh builds, "lean-to" extensions, etc. - all have come in under $50K total. I have a background in pure applied math, traveled for work (geophysical exploration and mapping) to two thirds of the worlds countries (although some them only count as multiple entries in a survey aircraft flipping about while doing survey lines in a primary country), have some million SLOC of mapping and geophysical code behind me in addition to some funky abstract symbolic algebra coding on the CAYLEY|MAGMA system and other stuff, and paid my way through university working in mining companies (labouring, Haul Pak driving, etc) and cattle stations (mustering, etc). I know a great many Australians my age with similar capabilities. You may have read a little Greg Egan, for example.

leakycap 1y ago
> You may have read a little Greg Egan, for example. No, I'm still focused on the article we're discussing here. However, by word count, you may have written more about the abilities of geriatric builders in Australia than anyone else to this point.
- defrost 1y ago
  Let's circle back to your progenitor questions and statements then: > In what recent decade could anyone even dream of $46,700 USD being enough for a quickly-built, furnished apartment to be built in a backyard with working laundry? This decade, it's entirely doable, in Australia, by many but not all Australians that range in age from early twenties through to mid eighties. > This sounds like it fell apart because it was never going to work and was an attempt by a family member to help an aged person who was in a bind of their own making via lack of planning. It fell apart most likely because the family member that made a promise and took money lacked staging experience and was over confident. > Seems the article could make a better impact if it had some better examples of the issue. The article certainly needs a much better example of younger Australians ripping off older Australians as this doesn't appear to be a case of intentional deceptive fraud at all, more well intentioned incompetence. > As presented, it sounds like "Nurse Joan" should have planned for retirement. That's a bit harsh, she had super annunciation sufficient to get a simple small building together, access to land within the family, and due a pension at 67 onwards after a lifetime of service to others in heath care. Life being what it is it's likely various road bumps occurred along the way. > you may have written more about the abilities of geriatric builders in Australia than anyone else to this point. Given no one else responded a single word would have crossed that threshold - you're welcome. Again, there's no requirement that the builders here be geriatric, just a note that many Australians in their 50s, 60s and older actively build stuff. eg: Colin here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/australian-first-mini-pumped-hydro-scheme-wa-walpole/104655498 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/australian-first-mini...
  - leakycap 1y ago
    I wonder why you are so sure it is easy & possible but the person in the article failed to even have a habitable space in the time and budget allowed. Again, post as many links of older people building a space ship if you'd like, it does not change the fact that most retirees aren't able to run their own plumbing for the laundry room Nurse Joan wishes she'd had. It sounds like you have everything you need, including family help, to get a great business going in Australia building unbelievably cheap housing by and for the elderly. Could be a life-changing operation if you can pull it off, and based on your posts you seem extremely confident. Are you doing something more important than housing the elderly with your day to day life? If not, what is holding you back?