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It's a language that attempts to solve more of the biggest issues with low level programming than any other current low-level programming language. Of course, t
by pron 1y ago
It's a language that attempts to solve more of the biggest issues with low level programming than any other current low-level programming language. Of course, there is nowhere near a universal consensus on what the biggest issues are, but here's what they are to me in order of importance (and I'm not alone):
1. Language complexity/lack of expressivity. You want code, as much as possible, to clearly express the algorithm at the level of detail needed at the language's domain, no more and no less. The level of detail in low-level languages is different from high-level languages because, for example, you want to see exactly where and when memory is allocated/freed. Both C and C++ fail at this for opposite reasons. C is often not expressive enough to express an algorithm clearly (at least not without the use of macros), and C++ is often too implicit, hiding important details that are then easy to miss [1]. These problems may affect program correctness.
2. Lack of spatial memory safety, which is the cause of the #2 and #6 most dangerous software weaknesses (https://cwe.mitre.org/top25/archive/2024/2024_cwe_top25.html https://cwe.mitre.org/top25/archive/2024/2024_cwe_top25.html). Unlike spatial memory safety, Zig doesn't guarantee the lack of temporal memory safety. This would have been very nice to have, but it isn't as important and not worth compromising on the other top points.
3. Slow build times, which may also affect correctness by slowing down the test cycle.
I don't find Zig similar to C or C++ at all (certainly not as similar as Rust is to C++). If anything, Zig's risk is in being a more revolutionary step than an evolutionary one.
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[1]: In the late eighties/early nineties (when I first learned C++), when we thought it might be a good idea for a language to be both low-level and high-level, C++'s notion of "zero-cost abstractions" seemed very interesting and even promising (I don't recall them being given that name then, but the problem - or advantage - was right there at the beginning; e.g. whether a call uses static or dynamic dispatch is an algorithmic detail that may be of interest in low-level programming, as well as whether a destructor is called, possibly through dynamic dispatch). Now that notion feels an outdated vestige of a bygone era. I'm aware there are still C++ programmers who still believe in writing high level applications in low-level languages and still believe in zero cost abstractions, but I think the industry has clearly been going the other way, and there's no indication it may be changing direction or may have any reason to do so.
- rollcat 1y ago> "zero-cost abstractions" I believe that in modern times, this term refers to stuff like: transparent conversion to a low-level representation (e.g. a bit-packed integer) from a high-level, statically checked datatype - e.g. a tagged union with exhaustive pattern matching, aka ADT. This is also something C++ etc lack.
- pjmlp 1y agoWe did not though that due to C++, we already though that with languages like PL/I, Mesa, Cedar, Modula-2, Object Pascal, Ada, among others.
- pron 1y agoGiven their level of adoption, those languages represented what their creators thought, not necessarily what the industry thought.
- pjmlp 1y agoSame applies to Zig, which without something comparable to how UNIX, OS X, Windows SDK, iOS, Docker, among others have forced industry adoption of specific languages, Zig will have as much industry adoption as those languages, just another D or C3. Maybe Oracle could make it unavoidable on JVM, instead of keeping to use C and C++ on the runtime.
- pron 1y agoI don't claim Zig represents what the industry thinks. The sharply declining use of low-level languages for high-level applications, however, shows that that idea is certainly unpopular these days. It could still be the case that more people will favour the C++/Rust style of zero cost abstractions even for low-level programming. I make no prediction there. As for HotSpot, we're not going to make a bet on a language with an uncertain future, and that goes for both Zig and Rust. What is more likely to happen (and is happening already) is gradually reducing the use of low-level languages in the JVM in favour of Java itself. We've already replaced a lot of IO code in C/C++ with Java, and the implementation of reflection has already largely moved from C++ to Java.