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They're quite difficult to use without looking at them, and I've got better things to look at while driving. Better buttons that don't move and have "presence"

They're quite difficult to use without looking at them, and I've got better things to look at while driving. Better buttons that don't move and have "presence" than I can feel without looking.

dazc 1y ago
Physical volume adjustment buttons on the steering wheel are about the only control I feel comfortable using whilst the car is moving. Anything more complex with a touch-screen interface is an accident waiting to happen.
- amluto 1y ago
  What about physical buttons off the wheel? A well-designed car might have quite a few: window controls, sound system volume knob, temperature up-down, etc. In my first car, I could operate the windows, climate control and sound system without taking my eyes off the road at all, although I had to glance briefly at the (fixed) display to see what radio station I was tuned to if it wasn’t obvious.
  - dazc 1y ago
    Well, yes, there is the obvious stuff although I could say opening windows is not entirely simple unless I'm fully opening or closing. Old-school radios were a lot more user-friendly with preset station buttons and a tactile volume control that actually felt like it was connected to something.
  - giantrobot 1y ago
    > What about physical buttons off the wheel? A well-designed car might have quite a few: window controls, sound system volume knob, temperature up-down, etc. Those controls are typically on some surface of the car your hand is braced on. They're also very simple physical controls with a good amount of tactile feedback. It's hard to fuck up a simple push button window control or AC dial. Even on a bumpy road you'd be hard pressed to have trouble with such controls.
doug_durham 1y ago
I have two cars with two different button layouts. I have to look at the physical buttons to use them. It's no different for me than a screen.
- non_aligned 1y ago
  I would be surprised if that's the case. For commonly-used functions, you quickly learn knob shapes and their general locations. I'm sure you can adjust volume without looking in both cars. With touchscreens, it's not just that you lose the tactile component, but all these interfaces are modal, with buttons that disappear or move around depending on the screen you're on. Oh, you're on the radio screen? There's no way to adjust seat heating from here... or if there is one, it's in a different place than on the AC screen.
  - doug_durham 1y ago
    I'm not arguing the physical buttons "can" be used to have muscle memory so you can use them without looking. What I'm saying is that it isn't a guarantee. The good thing about CarPlay is that the screen interface is the same regardless of the car I'm driving. I get an instinctual level of interaction.
- Swenrekcah 1y ago
  I won’t argue with your lived experience but this would make you an extreme outlier. About 20 years ago, every teenager in the world who had a mobile phone was able to select a contact from their phonebook and type an entire message and send, in class with their phone in their pocket. This is possible because of physical buttons and a deterministic user interface. The same applies to cars and other control interfaces.
  - doug_durham 1y ago
    As I said I have two cars from two manufacturers. They have wildly different button layouts. Your example is a teen ager with a "single phone". In my case I have to resist the urge to read the tiny text on the physical button to know what I need to do. I avoid spending enough time in my car to learn the physical layout.

They're quite difficult to use without looking at them, and I've got better things to look at while driving. Better buttons that don't move and have "presence" than I can feel without looking.

dazc 1y ago

Physical volume adjustment buttons on the steering wheel are about the only control I feel comfortable using whilst the car is moving. Anything more complex with a touch-screen interface is an accident waiting to happen.

amluto 1y ago
What about physical buttons off the wheel? A well-designed car might have quite a few: window controls, sound system volume knob, temperature up-down, etc. In my first car, I could operate the windows, climate control and sound system without taking my eyes off the road at all, although I had to glance briefly at the (fixed) display to see what radio station I was tuned to if it wasn’t obvious.
- dazc 1y ago
  Well, yes, there is the obvious stuff although I could say opening windows is not entirely simple unless I'm fully opening or closing. Old-school radios were a lot more user-friendly with preset station buttons and a tactile volume control that actually felt like it was connected to something.
- giantrobot 1y ago
  > What about physical buttons off the wheel? A well-designed car might have quite a few: window controls, sound system volume knob, temperature up-down, etc. Those controls are typically on some surface of the car your hand is braced on. They're also very simple physical controls with a good amount of tactile feedback. It's hard to fuck up a simple push button window control or AC dial. Even on a bumpy road you'd be hard pressed to have trouble with such controls.

doug_durham 1y ago

I have two cars with two different button layouts. I have to look at the physical buttons to use them. It's no different for me than a screen.

non_aligned 1y ago
I would be surprised if that's the case. For commonly-used functions, you quickly learn knob shapes and their general locations. I'm sure you can adjust volume without looking in both cars. With touchscreens, it's not just that you lose the tactile component, but all these interfaces are modal, with buttons that disappear or move around depending on the screen you're on. Oh, you're on the radio screen? There's no way to adjust seat heating from here... or if there is one, it's in a different place than on the AC screen.
- doug_durham 1y ago
  I'm not arguing the physical buttons "can" be used to have muscle memory so you can use them without looking. What I'm saying is that it isn't a guarantee. The good thing about CarPlay is that the screen interface is the same regardless of the car I'm driving. I get an instinctual level of interaction.
Swenrekcah 1y ago
I won’t argue with your lived experience but this would make you an extreme outlier. About 20 years ago, every teenager in the world who had a mobile phone was able to select a contact from their phonebook and type an entire message and send, in class with their phone in their pocket. This is possible because of physical buttons and a deterministic user interface. The same applies to cars and other control interfaces.
- doug_durham 1y ago
  As I said I have two cars from two manufacturers. They have wildly different button layouts. Your example is a teen ager with a "single phone". In my case I have to resist the urge to read the tiny text on the physical button to know what I need to do. I avoid spending enough time in my car to learn the physical layout.