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This is a very bad move. Once again the goverment is putting relationships with foreign businesses ahead of domestic firms. It's just more tech we can't indep

by Lio 1y ago

This is a very bad move. Once again the goverment is putting relationships with foreign businesses ahead of domestic firms. It's just more tech we can't independantly rely on.

gms 1y ago
That's how the world works. No country produces everything.
- jimbohn 1y ago
  But not everything has a killswitch or other sovereign-threatening features
dazc 1y ago
Is there a UK-based company offering a comparable service?
- tremon 1y ago
  No, and that is unequivocally a good thing.
  - mhh__ 1y ago
    Palantir mostly sell SQL joins and dashboards...
    - dash2 1y ago
      I’ve always felt that was the bear case. The bull case may be that their secret sauce is how they get large, difficult, change-resistant organisations to accept their joins and the dashboards.
      - mhh__ 1y ago
        Of course, yes. This is what consultants are for.
        bix6 1y ago
        Forward deployed engineers was a big breakthrough for them
fidotron 1y ago
The problem is the UK tech business scene positively drips in that particular sort of expensively suited sliminess, as the entire HP Autonomy mess epitomized. Other places have this, but in the UK it's like it has killed almost the whole ecosystem. It hasn't been a country with a remote chance of producing another Arm for well over a decade, and Arm, successful though it is, is not a huge financial success. Maybe that's what using Prince Andrew as a trade representative achieved.
- username332211 1y ago
  Somehow, I have the nagging suspicion that the laws of parliament and it's budgets have more to do with the state of British enterprise than the appointment of a sexually-predatory prince as a trade representative. And that you are well aware of that. I also suspect that your (*) unwillingness to name the actual reasons for the loss of economic capability is the ultimate cause of what you are describing. (*) And mine, if I'm to be honest.
  - fidotron 1y ago
    > Somehow, I have the nagging suspicion that the laws of parliament and it's budgets have more to do with the state of British enterprise than the appointment of a sexually-predatory prince as a trade representative. And that you are well aware of that. Nope. What kind of culture puts a guy like that as a trade rep? An utterly superficial one, which is what the UK is today, and that is the root problem. Liz Truss had her stopped-clock-being-right-twice-a-day moment when she asked why it was that all the kids in the country wanted to be pop stars or football players. It's almost like the effort:reward for absolutely anything else just isn't worth it.
    - username332211 1y ago
      And yet, the culture of the realm is probably innocent even there. There are very sound financial reasons why nobody in that island aspires to work in any sort of science and engineering. Similarly, if you are the sort of person interested in putting their capitals to productive use (as opposed to a downright parasic extraction of rents) , the best decision you could make is to place them across the sea. Or the ocean.
nickdothutton 1y ago
Once upon a time I worked for a UK firm which could have been a competitor to Palantir, in fact... if Palantir's product could be framed as "next gen" the UK firm had the "previous gen" product(s). They had existing, reliable, but old product, all the right three letter agency customers, revenues in the several 10s of millions of pounds per year back as far as the early 2000s. Zero management interest in making the next gen product or in drastically improving (rather than incrementally improving) the tech underneath. Some of my brighter colleagues were so aggrieved by this that they quit to build something themselves, some just complained and eventually got bored and quit, some are still in the rusting hulk. Part innovator's dilemma, part lack of ambition, part lack of government support, part the usual UK/Euro VC situ. All I'll say is I met Karp once, face to face, in Palantir's very early days. The UK firm didn't have a Karp.
- ksec 1y ago
  >Part innovator's dilemma, part lack of ambition, part lack of government support, part the usual UK/Euro VC situ. I wish I am wrong. Unfortunately agrees with you on everything. Part innovator's dilemma almost certainly happens to all companies. It is the rest of the sentence that are the problems. Ambition, Government, UK/Euro VC situ, and generally culture. Those who are Ambition moved to the US. Government, both ruling party and cvivl servant aren't interested to making anything better and I have seen this first hand. UK and Euro VC.
- skruger 1y ago
  QinetiQ?
JKCalhoun 1y ago
Fairly ignorant of what Palintir actually does, but my layman's understanding is that it should be a thing easy enough to replicate. Why are they uniquely positioned as they appear to be?
- tomComb 1y ago
  They make trump like you. The best way to get the US state on your side these days is to send money to Oracle, Palintir, or a bitcoin address.
  - throwawayq3423 1y ago
    aka Corruption.
- fph 1y ago
  Palantirs are inherently evil, and they deceive those who use them. Sauron was deceived into thinking Pippin had the ring, and this led to his demise. Denethor saw what he thought was Sauron's army, and was driven to suicide.
  - jwagenet 1y ago
    The palentiri aren’t inherently evil. They are mere seeing stones. Sauron’s hubris led him to believe Pippin was the hobbit carrying the ring. Denethor and Saruman were corrupted by Sauron’s influence through the palentiri.
- bix6 1y ago
  So why hasn’t someone replicated them? They’re over 20 years old at this point. That makes them a tech dinosaur. Sophisticated systems plus powerful connections in government and industry plus so much money. That’s hard to unseat.
  - throwawayq3423 1y ago
    Literally everyone can do what they do. Their superpower has always been inside sales.

by Lio 1y ago

This is a very bad move. Once again the goverment is putting relationships with foreign businesses ahead of domestic firms. It's just more tech we can't independantly rely on.

gms 1y ago

That's how the world works. No country produces everything.

jimbohn 1y ago
But not everything has a killswitch or other sovereign-threatening features

dazc 1y ago

Is there a UK-based company offering a comparable service?

tremon 1y ago
No, and that is unequivocally a good thing.
- mhh__ 1y ago
  Palantir mostly sell SQL joins and dashboards...
  - dash2 1y ago
    I’ve always felt that was the bear case. The bull case may be that their secret sauce is how they get large, difficult, change-resistant organisations to accept their joins and the dashboards.
    - mhh__ 1y ago
      Of course, yes. This is what consultants are for.
      - bix6 1y ago
        Forward deployed engineers was a big breakthrough for them

fidotron 1y ago

The problem is the UK tech business scene positively drips in that particular sort of expensively suited sliminess, as the entire HP Autonomy mess epitomized. Other places have this, but in the UK it's like it has killed almost the whole ecosystem. It hasn't been a country with a remote chance of producing another Arm for well over a decade, and Arm, successful though it is, is not a huge financial success. Maybe that's what using Prince Andrew as a trade representative achieved.

username332211 1y ago
Somehow, I have the nagging suspicion that the laws of parliament and it's budgets have more to do with the state of British enterprise than the appointment of a sexually-predatory prince as a trade representative. And that you are well aware of that. I also suspect that your (*) unwillingness to name the actual reasons for the loss of economic capability is the ultimate cause of what you are describing. (*) And mine, if I'm to be honest.
- fidotron 1y ago
  > Somehow, I have the nagging suspicion that the laws of parliament and it's budgets have more to do with the state of British enterprise than the appointment of a sexually-predatory prince as a trade representative. And that you are well aware of that. Nope. What kind of culture puts a guy like that as a trade rep? An utterly superficial one, which is what the UK is today, and that is the root problem. Liz Truss had her stopped-clock-being-right-twice-a-day moment when she asked why it was that all the kids in the country wanted to be pop stars or football players. It's almost like the effort:reward for absolutely anything else just isn't worth it.
  - username332211 1y ago
    And yet, the culture of the realm is probably innocent even there. There are very sound financial reasons why nobody in that island aspires to work in any sort of science and engineering. Similarly, if you are the sort of person interested in putting their capitals to productive use (as opposed to a downright parasic extraction of rents) , the best decision you could make is to place them across the sea. Or the ocean.

nickdothutton 1y ago

Once upon a time I worked for a UK firm which could have been a competitor to Palantir, in fact... if Palantir's product could be framed as "next gen" the UK firm had the "previous gen" product(s). They had existing, reliable, but old product, all the right three letter agency customers, revenues in the several 10s of millions of pounds per year back as far as the early 2000s. Zero management interest in making the next gen product or in drastically improving (rather than incrementally improving) the tech underneath. Some of my brighter colleagues were so aggrieved by this that they quit to build something themselves, some just complained and eventually got bored and quit, some are still in the rusting hulk. Part innovator's dilemma, part lack of ambition, part lack of government support, part the usual UK/Euro VC situ. All I'll say is I met Karp once, face to face, in Palantir's very early days. The UK firm didn't have a Karp.

ksec 1y ago
>Part innovator's dilemma, part lack of ambition, part lack of government support, part the usual UK/Euro VC situ. I wish I am wrong. Unfortunately agrees with you on everything. Part innovator's dilemma almost certainly happens to all companies. It is the rest of the sentence that are the problems. Ambition, Government, UK/Euro VC situ, and generally culture. Those who are Ambition moved to the US. Government, both ruling party and cvivl servant aren't interested to making anything better and I have seen this first hand. UK and Euro VC.
skruger 1y ago
QinetiQ?

JKCalhoun 1y ago

Fairly ignorant of what Palintir actually does, but my layman's understanding is that it should be a thing easy enough to replicate. Why are they uniquely positioned as they appear to be?

tomComb 1y ago
They make trump like you. The best way to get the US state on your side these days is to send money to Oracle, Palintir, or a bitcoin address.
- throwawayq3423 1y ago
  aka Corruption.
fph 1y ago
Palantirs are inherently evil, and they deceive those who use them. Sauron was deceived into thinking Pippin had the ring, and this led to his demise. Denethor saw what he thought was Sauron's army, and was driven to suicide.
- jwagenet 1y ago
  The palentiri aren’t inherently evil. They are mere seeing stones. Sauron’s hubris led him to believe Pippin was the hobbit carrying the ring. Denethor and Saruman were corrupted by Sauron’s influence through the palentiri.
bix6 1y ago
So why hasn’t someone replicated them? They’re over 20 years old at this point. That makes them a tech dinosaur. Sophisticated systems plus powerful connections in government and industry plus so much money. That’s hard to unseat.
- throwawayq3423 1y ago
  Literally everyone can do what they do. Their superpower has always been inside sales.