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Goals don't need to be fully realized to be useful. Ambitious goals are never fully realized. This is like saying a compass is only useful if you travel all the

Goals don't need to be fully realized to be useful. Ambitious goals are never fully realized. This is like saying a compass is only useful if you travel all the way to the north pole. To offer a concrete example, mathematicians failed to unify mathematics. They discovered it was impossible. But that's an important result, and there were other valuable intermediate results (like set theory). There was an article here the other day about how the Sagrada Familia is nearly finished. Gaudi's original vision would have involved bulldozing a bunch of surrounding homes and businesses. That's unlikely to happen. Regardless, the project is considered a huge achievement in architecture.

leakycap 1y ago
> Goals don't need to be fully realized to be useful. Maybe you're thinking of an aspiration? Goals are achievable. > Ambitious goals are never fully realized. "Unreachable aspirations are never fully realized" is accurate. However, I've reached many actual "ambitious goals" in life, because whether easy or difficult goals are things you can fully realize. > This is like saying a compass is only useful if you travel all the way to the north pole. I have no idea where this example came from and it seems to only be half explained. But, a compass is useful because it gives you direction -- not because you expect to reach the North Pole every time you check direction. An aspiration provides value in the pursuit itself and the valuable discoveries you make along the way. Aspiration: A journey (still valuable, but you might not reach or even have an exact destination) Goal: A destination (As in "achievable" -- see "A" in S.M.A.R.T. goals, a very common framework for understanding how to set and use goals effectively) Let's not confuse the two concepts. It serves no purpose and might actually get in the way of your success.
- maxbond 1y ago
  To be honest this is splitting hairs. If our disagreement is semantic, then I don't really care to discuss it further, you can use whatever terminology you please and it isn't a problem or something that needs to be hashed out. Presenting a disagreement as a "misunderstanding" on my part because I don't use your terminology is disingenuous. I assure you, differences in terminology will not interfere in my success. Just like speaking a different language wouldn't interfere. I will leave you with a final thought. If an aspiration is a goal that can't be realized - then we only know this in retrospect. All goals are possible until proven otherwise. Russell and Whitehead thought mathematics could be unified. Who are we to judge them as fools? They didn't know what we know, because they taught us.
  - leakycap 1y ago
    I am not responsible for the commonly understood meaning and definitions of words in the English language. People learn something new every day. This is your opportunity to learn how goals (which are always achievable) are different than things like wishes, daydreams, hopes, or even aspirations. If you'd rather not learn, that's OK. But it is not disingenuous to correctly define a word when someone else is misusing it repeatedly. > All goals are possible until proven otherwise. I'll enjoy this more than you know.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - maxbond 1y ago
      Thank you for the lesson. If I could return the favor, you may be interested in linguistic descriptivism. You probably won't agree with it but it may be educational nonetheless. I'm always happy to put a smile on someone's face, but I think if you reflect on it you'll find that you have evidence to support the impossibility of goals you believe impossible (in other words, they have been "proven otherwise" in the past). If you've made up your mind without any evidence, well, you do you but that may be a belief that hinders you rather than helps.
      - leakycap 1y ago
        https://youtu.be/KrLwxfnCSGg?t=1216 https://youtu.be/KrLwxfnCSGg?t=1216 Guest: You know how sometimes you can pronounce the same word differently? Well—two things can be true. Interviewee: Wait, what are you saying? Guest: When you're from the Midwest, you say 'meeyulk' for milk or 'peeloh' for pillow, and that's not incorrect. It's just, you know, two things can be true. So, that's what I was saying. Interviewer: Yeah. [wideyed confusion] Guest: So, what's that all about? (hint: it isn't linguistic descriptivism & I'm not the guest in this scenario)
    - godelski 1y ago
      > I am not responsible for the commonly understood meaning and definitions of words in the English language. Yet your are responsible for your own misunderstanding of commonly understood meanings and definitions. Let's have a look, shall we? goal (noun) 1 : the end toward which effort is directed : aim | The goal is high-speed rail travel. Synonyms: purpose aim plan objective intention intent idea object ambition dream https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goal Do you see a requirement of "must be obtainable"? Even the synonyms would tell you you're wrong. Surely you've made plans that have failed. Surely intentions and ideas. But regardless, there is still ambitions and dreams, which you specifically state are not included. Let's have a look at another word, just for fun... aspirational (adjective) : of, relating to, or characterized by aspiration | aspirational goals https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aspirational I am sorry, it is YOU who are lacking the understanding of common words. Don't be so smug when you're so trivially proven wrong. If you do care about being correct, as you try to convince us, your only "out" is to update your belief. You had aspirations of proving us wrong, they gave you direction, but you failed. Thank you for the active demonstration of the utility of unachievable goals.

leakycap 1y ago

> Goals don't need to be fully realized to be useful. Maybe you're thinking of an aspiration? Goals are achievable. > Ambitious goals are never fully realized. "Unreachable aspirations are never fully realized" is accurate. However, I've reached many actual "ambitious goals" in life, because whether easy or difficult goals are things you can fully realize. > This is like saying a compass is only useful if you travel all the way to the north pole. I have no idea where this example came from and it seems to only be half explained. But, a compass is useful because it gives you direction -- not because you expect to reach the North Pole every time you check direction. An aspiration provides value in the pursuit itself and the valuable discoveries you make along the way. Aspiration: A journey (still valuable, but you might not reach or even have an exact destination) Goal: A destination (As in "achievable" -- see "A" in S.M.A.R.T. goals, a very common framework for understanding how to set and use goals effectively) Let's not confuse the two concepts. It serves no purpose and might actually get in the way of your success.

maxbond 1y ago
To be honest this is splitting hairs. If our disagreement is semantic, then I don't really care to discuss it further, you can use whatever terminology you please and it isn't a problem or something that needs to be hashed out. Presenting a disagreement as a "misunderstanding" on my part because I don't use your terminology is disingenuous. I assure you, differences in terminology will not interfere in my success. Just like speaking a different language wouldn't interfere. I will leave you with a final thought. If an aspiration is a goal that can't be realized - then we only know this in retrospect. All goals are possible until proven otherwise. Russell and Whitehead thought mathematics could be unified. Who are we to judge them as fools? They didn't know what we know, because they taught us.
- leakycap 1y ago
  I am not responsible for the commonly understood meaning and definitions of words in the English language. People learn something new every day. This is your opportunity to learn how goals (which are always achievable) are different than things like wishes, daydreams, hopes, or even aspirations. If you'd rather not learn, that's OK. But it is not disingenuous to correctly define a word when someone else is misusing it repeatedly. > All goals are possible until proven otherwise. I'll enjoy this more than you know.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - maxbond 1y ago
    Thank you for the lesson. If I could return the favor, you may be interested in linguistic descriptivism. You probably won't agree with it but it may be educational nonetheless. I'm always happy to put a smile on someone's face, but I think if you reflect on it you'll find that you have evidence to support the impossibility of goals you believe impossible (in other words, they have been "proven otherwise" in the past). If you've made up your mind without any evidence, well, you do you but that may be a belief that hinders you rather than helps.
    - leakycap 1y ago
      https://youtu.be/KrLwxfnCSGg?t=1216 https://youtu.be/KrLwxfnCSGg?t=1216 Guest: You know how sometimes you can pronounce the same word differently? Well—two things can be true. Interviewee: Wait, what are you saying? Guest: When you're from the Midwest, you say 'meeyulk' for milk or 'peeloh' for pillow, and that's not incorrect. It's just, you know, two things can be true. So, that's what I was saying. Interviewer: Yeah. [wideyed confusion] Guest: So, what's that all about? (hint: it isn't linguistic descriptivism & I'm not the guest in this scenario)
  - godelski 1y ago
    > I am not responsible for the commonly understood meaning and definitions of words in the English language. Yet your are responsible for your own misunderstanding of commonly understood meanings and definitions. Let's have a look, shall we? goal (noun) 1 : the end toward which effort is directed : aim | The goal is high-speed rail travel. Synonyms: purpose aim plan objective intention intent idea object ambition dream https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goal Do you see a requirement of "must be obtainable"? Even the synonyms would tell you you're wrong. Surely you've made plans that have failed. Surely intentions and ideas. But regardless, there is still ambitions and dreams, which you specifically state are not included. Let's have a look at another word, just for fun... aspirational (adjective) : of, relating to, or characterized by aspiration | aspirational goals https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aspirational I am sorry, it is YOU who are lacking the understanding of common words. Don't be so smug when you're so trivially proven wrong. If you do care about being correct, as you try to convince us, your only "out" is to update your belief. You had aspirations of proving us wrong, they gave you direction, but you failed. Thank you for the active demonstration of the utility of unachievable goals.