3 ms·

Unless you mean the electoral college overriding popular vote nonsense, and disproportionate Senate power, which was there since the beginning, I don't know wha

Unless you mean the electoral college overriding popular vote nonsense, and disproportionate Senate power, which was there since the beginning, I don't know what you mean. The voters apparently wanted more of this per the Nov 2024 elections, when we still had a credible election process.

jonathanstrange 1y ago
There was evidence of voting machine fraud, though.
- cyanydeez 1y ago
  even without fraud, republicans have gerry mandered enough states that they're silencing the public majority.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  In almost every single jurisdiction? That would be an impressive fraud to pull off. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/06/us/politics/presidential-election-2024-red-shift.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/06/us/politics/p... >More than 89 percent of counties in the United States shifted in favor of former President Donald J. Trump in the 2024 presidential election, according to a New York Times analysis of election results.
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    No, you don't need to do that in 'almost every single jurisdiction'. That's a strawman.
    - lotsofpulp 1y ago
      It would be quite the coincidence then for all the voting precincts to swing towards the same candidate as the fraud. I find it likelier that people’s preferences simply changed.
      - jonathanstrange 1y ago
        Possible but a simple software update can also do the trick. That's just a fact and the reason why no one should trust a democracy based on voting machines. Experts have been warning against voting machines for decades.
        lotsofpulp 1y ago
        Do all the jurisdictions use the same software? It would surprise me if we are at that level of centralization, plus no discrepancies appeared between audited paper ballots and the software counts?
        jonathanstrange 1y ago
        Why "all jurisdictions"? That's a strawman. You only need to target a few districts in swing states to secure a victory.
        idontpost 1y ago
        [dead]
        lotsofpulp 1y ago
        …that is the point I am making. Which scenario is likelier: All 7 swing states went to Republicans due to fraud, and it just so happens that everywhere else also went more Republican. Or all 7 swing states went to Republicans because voters voted more Republican throughout the country? Note that not voting is the same as voting for the winning party.
        1y ago
  - Arainach 1y ago
    >89 percent of counties Land doesn't vote. People vote. What percentage of the population live in those 89% of counties?
    - lotsofpulp 1y ago
      If you scroll down, the article has a breakdown of all the various populations that voted more Republican. Here is another reputable publication: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voter-turnout-2020-2024/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voter-turnou...
- onetokeoverthe 1y ago
  [dead]
- djohnston 1y ago
  Interesting… would you say the election was, erm, rigged?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jauntywundrkind 1y ago
"Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem" has been sedition that has been let to spread and rot at our foundations for decades now, growing only stronger. There is absolute bedlam and insanity pushed to American voters, completely made up fictionalized reality, blasted out by Fox News and worse. People live in the most absurd hyperreal simulation, built entirely around hating government, disbelief of the state, and disdain for civil society civil rights and decency. The extremeification of American politics by the right has totally crippled the state. Business can sometimes come in an extract wins for itself, but everyone else loses. The political gamesmanship begat by Hastert rule, where wins must never be bipartisan wins, has decayed the government, betrayed the nation. I'm so so tired of such loud utterly decoupled unhinged sedition, against the state against reality. My favorite recurring threads these days is a simple one: society that wants to keep functioning has to disincentivize baldfaced lying, especially by authorities
- politician 1y ago
  Aren't the left the ones making the claim posed by your opening sentence these days? Could you clarify whether it's seditious only when one side is making that claim or is the seditiousness of the claim group-independent?
  - djohnston 1y ago
    Of course he only thinks it’s seditious when it’s the wrong team. Of course democracy is broken because his team lost the election.
  - jauntywundrkind 1y ago
    The left wants social services and funding science and health care and education. The left wants legitimacy in the law & a government deserving of respect. Look through Kamala's campaign website & it's clear there's respect & desire for government. https://web.archive.org/web/20250101001206/https://kamalaharris.com/issues/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250101001206/https://kamalahar... The right is pretty uniquely anti government, is enraptured by conspiracy theories and madness. Reagan strongly dismantled belief in the government. More recently we've had mass movements like the Tea Party. It was overwhelmingly people from the right who threatened, dozed, and otherwise scared the living shit out of FEMA agents trying to provide help after Helene and Milton. It's good to criticiE the government, to want and demand better. But that's not what we are seeing from both sides. We're seeing the wholesale hegemonic suicide, the destruction of the advanced economy that has so far distinguished and given America it's power and respect, by a party that has been cheering on anti government & decoupled unhinged conspiracies and which has stoked anger and destruction for decades. It can go two ways! But the whataboutism doesn't impress me in the least. There is overwhelming lopsidedness, of those who care and are empathetic and want better, stacked against negative creeps draining this land.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
thisisit 1y ago
I see this point being made a lot. Lets be clear - the election was won on inflation. While a lot was said about 47th's previous record it was often brushed aside with - Sure, this was said last time too and he didn't do any of this. Its the same thing all over again, people crying wolf etc. There was even consternation about Project 2025 and many well minded people didn't believe it would be enacted. Now the approval rating on handling of economy continues to fall day by day. Immigration was the strongest suit at +10 is now under water at -4.5. That means while voters might have wanted something to be done about immigration but they might not wanted more of this. This will become clear only during the midterm elections. With all the efforts being made to gerrymander and gain as many seats as possible, it is good guess to say GOP also realize that people didn't want more of this - and the only way now is to hold on to power by any means necessary. So, that it allows others to say - This government was elected in Nov 2024 and if they are doing this terrible thing then surely people have voted for this.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  I don’t give voters that much benefit of the doubt. They saw a man (and party) make baseless accusations to overturn an election, openly support a terrorist attack on the government, and campaign on freeing those terrorists and punishing those who went after the terrorists. And they decided this man was better than a woman, especially a black woman. Because he was a man. I’ve been told this even by a few older women, that a woman leader didn’t sit right with them. And they were non white immigrants! This is all ignoring the myriad sex crimes, fraud, and general lack of integrity of the man.
  - lotsoweiners 1y ago
    All of that could potentially been avoided had Joe Biden decided to pick a popular and well qualified running mate rather than a diversity hire that checked certain boxes. Go read opinions on Reddit and they seem to think Biden was right and blame the American bigots. Like them or not, Republicans have done an excellent job of nominating and running an electable candidate even if he was not embraced by the establishment. Democrats had a chance at this in 2016 and went with Hillary and the rest is of course history.
hvb2 1y ago
I don't believe the average American cares about the concerns raised in this thread. Most of them don't have the slightest understanding of how their immigration system works. I do think that no one would accept this kind of mismanagement if it were to affect them. Let's say by executive order they make tax day Feb 1st on January 30th. And everyone who's late will pay a hefty fine. See how that would go.... This is no way to make policy, no matter the form of government

jonathanstrange 1y ago

There was evidence of voting machine fraud, though.

cyanydeez 1y ago
even without fraud, republicans have gerry mandered enough states that they're silencing the public majority.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
lotsofpulp 1y ago
In almost every single jurisdiction? That would be an impressive fraud to pull off. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/06/us/politics/presidential-election-2024-red-shift.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/06/us/politics/p... >More than 89 percent of counties in the United States shifted in favor of former President Donald J. Trump in the 2024 presidential election, according to a New York Times analysis of election results.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  No, you don't need to do that in 'almost every single jurisdiction'. That's a strawman.
  - lotsofpulp 1y ago
    It would be quite the coincidence then for all the voting precincts to swing towards the same candidate as the fraud. I find it likelier that people’s preferences simply changed.
    - jonathanstrange 1y ago
      Possible but a simple software update can also do the trick. That's just a fact and the reason why no one should trust a democracy based on voting machines. Experts have been warning against voting machines for decades.
      - lotsofpulp 1y ago
        Do all the jurisdictions use the same software? It would surprise me if we are at that level of centralization, plus no discrepancies appeared between audited paper ballots and the software counts?
        jonathanstrange 1y ago
        Why "all jurisdictions"? That's a strawman. You only need to target a few districts in swing states to secure a victory.
        idontpost 1y ago
        [dead]
        lotsofpulp 1y ago
        …that is the point I am making. Which scenario is likelier: All 7 swing states went to Republicans due to fraud, and it just so happens that everywhere else also went more Republican. Or all 7 swing states went to Republicans because voters voted more Republican throughout the country? Note that not voting is the same as voting for the winning party.
      - 1y ago
- Arainach 1y ago
  >89 percent of counties Land doesn't vote. People vote. What percentage of the population live in those 89% of counties?
  - lotsofpulp 1y ago
    If you scroll down, the article has a breakdown of all the various populations that voted more Republican. Here is another reputable publication: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voter-turnout-2020-2024/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voter-turnou...
onetokeoverthe 1y ago
[dead]
djohnston 1y ago
Interesting… would you say the election was, erm, rigged?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

jauntywundrkind 1y ago

"Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem" has been sedition that has been let to spread and rot at our foundations for decades now, growing only stronger. There is absolute bedlam and insanity pushed to American voters, completely made up fictionalized reality, blasted out by Fox News and worse. People live in the most absurd hyperreal simulation, built entirely around hating government, disbelief of the state, and disdain for civil society civil rights and decency. The extremeification of American politics by the right has totally crippled the state. Business can sometimes come in an extract wins for itself, but everyone else loses. The political gamesmanship begat by Hastert rule, where wins must never be bipartisan wins, has decayed the government, betrayed the nation. I'm so so tired of such loud utterly decoupled unhinged sedition, against the state against reality. My favorite recurring threads these days is a simple one: society that wants to keep functioning has to disincentivize baldfaced lying, especially by authorities

politician 1y ago
Aren't the left the ones making the claim posed by your opening sentence these days? Could you clarify whether it's seditious only when one side is making that claim or is the seditiousness of the claim group-independent?
- djohnston 1y ago
  Of course he only thinks it’s seditious when it’s the wrong team. Of course democracy is broken because his team lost the election.
- jauntywundrkind 1y ago
  The left wants social services and funding science and health care and education. The left wants legitimacy in the law & a government deserving of respect. Look through Kamala's campaign website & it's clear there's respect & desire for government. https://web.archive.org/web/20250101001206/https://kamalaharris.com/issues/ https://web.archive.org/web/20250101001206/https://kamalahar... The right is pretty uniquely anti government, is enraptured by conspiracy theories and madness. Reagan strongly dismantled belief in the government. More recently we've had mass movements like the Tea Party. It was overwhelmingly people from the right who threatened, dozed, and otherwise scared the living shit out of FEMA agents trying to provide help after Helene and Milton. It's good to criticiE the government, to want and demand better. But that's not what we are seeing from both sides. We're seeing the wholesale hegemonic suicide, the destruction of the advanced economy that has so far distinguished and given America it's power and respect, by a party that has been cheering on anti government & decoupled unhinged conspiracies and which has stoked anger and destruction for decades. It can go two ways! But the whataboutism doesn't impress me in the least. There is overwhelming lopsidedness, of those who care and are empathetic and want better, stacked against negative creeps draining this land.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

thisisit 1y ago

I see this point being made a lot. Lets be clear - the election was won on inflation. While a lot was said about 47th's previous record it was often brushed aside with - Sure, this was said last time too and he didn't do any of this. Its the same thing all over again, people crying wolf etc. There was even consternation about Project 2025 and many well minded people didn't believe it would be enacted. Now the approval rating on handling of economy continues to fall day by day. Immigration was the strongest suit at +10 is now under water at -4.5. That means while voters might have wanted something to be done about immigration but they might not wanted more of this. This will become clear only during the midterm elections. With all the efforts being made to gerrymander and gain as many seats as possible, it is good guess to say GOP also realize that people didn't want more of this - and the only way now is to hold on to power by any means necessary. So, that it allows others to say - This government was elected in Nov 2024 and if they are doing this terrible thing then surely people have voted for this.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
lotsofpulp 1y ago
I don’t give voters that much benefit of the doubt. They saw a man (and party) make baseless accusations to overturn an election, openly support a terrorist attack on the government, and campaign on freeing those terrorists and punishing those who went after the terrorists. And they decided this man was better than a woman, especially a black woman. Because he was a man. I’ve been told this even by a few older women, that a woman leader didn’t sit right with them. And they were non white immigrants! This is all ignoring the myriad sex crimes, fraud, and general lack of integrity of the man.
- lotsoweiners 1y ago
  All of that could potentially been avoided had Joe Biden decided to pick a popular and well qualified running mate rather than a diversity hire that checked certain boxes. Go read opinions on Reddit and they seem to think Biden was right and blame the American bigots. Like them or not, Republicans have done an excellent job of nominating and running an electable candidate even if he was not embraced by the establishment. Democrats had a chance at this in 2016 and went with Hillary and the rest is of course history.

hvb2 1y ago

I don't believe the average American cares about the concerns raised in this thread. Most of them don't have the slightest understanding of how their immigration system works. I do think that no one would accept this kind of mismanagement if it were to affect them. Let's say by executive order they make tax day Feb 1st on January 30th. And everyone who's late will pay a hefty fine. See how that would go.... This is no way to make policy, no matter the form of government