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> Remove exception to AIPAC political status > Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely What would that achieve? AIPAC is a domestic organization. Their me

by shykes 1y ago

> Remove exception to AIPAC political status > Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely What would that achieve? AIPAC is a domestic organization. Their members are US citizens and permanent residents, making individual political donations of their own free will. AIPAC vets candidates for their support of Israel, and individual donors rely on them to make an informed decision. But ultimately it is their decision, and their money. If AIPAC disappeared tomorrow, their members would still be directing their political donations towards pro-Israel candidates, as is their constitutional right. They would simply look for another nonprofit to do the vetting, or do the research themselves. On top of being ineffective, attacking AIPAC in this way would also be unethical. You may not like that some US citizens prioritize support for Israel in their donations. That doesn't give you the right to suppress their donations. It creates a dangerous precedent where suppressing the political rights of some citizens is justified if they have the "wrong" opinions.

MomsAVoxell 1y ago
>You may not like that some US citizens prioritize support for Israel in their donations. That doesn't give you the right to suppress their donations. It's quite simple, treat Israel like Russia. Same tools are available for any nation which commits atrocities under the watchful guise of the mighty, moral, USA.
- shykes 1y ago
  My point is that you should tell that to the US-based individuals who choose to donate to pro-Israel candidates, or donate to other candidates yourself (if you're legally allowed to), instead of attacking their ability to exercise their right to donate.
  - MomsAVoxell 1y ago
    The point is, donations from an active vocal minority aren't the only way to deal with the problem of subjugation of one government to another, especially when those governments are in the process of committing heinous acts of terror, war crimes, and crimes against humanity at massive scale. If it works on Russia, it'll work for Israel.
  - muddi900 1y ago
    This is a highly simplistic look at the facts. It is clear that these are not just citizens funding local candidates. Also, they are advocating for a foreign nation. Under FARA rules they should be registered as forein agents.
    - shykes 1y ago
      > It is clear that these are not just citizens funding local candidates Not only is it not clear, it's nonsensical. To summarize the facts: - AIPAC is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit. Their historical role is to vet and recommend candidates; then their members make the actual donations. - Federal law prohibit foreign nationals from contributing directly - Candidates are required by law to enforce this - Donors must provide name, address, occupation and employer if the donation is above $200. So you're basically claiming that AIPAC members are engaged in a conspiracy to break federal election laws. That is a "flat earth" level of conspiracy theory, so the least you could do is provide arguments to back your claim. > Also, they are advocating for a foreign nation. Under FARA rules they should be registered as forein agents. This is false. AIPAC is a US-funded and US-staffed organization, advocating for US foreign policy. It does not receive funding or instructions from Israel. Therefore FARA does not apply to it. Note that I already explained this in my earlier post... Your blind spot is that you can't fathom that US-based individuals legitimately care about US-Israel friendship, and wish to donate to US candidates accordingly. In your mind, AIPAC cannot possibly reflect the political priorities of regular Americans. The only plausible explanation for its influence is a conspiracy by the evil Jewish state, pulling strings in the shadows... I'll point out the elephant in the room: Jews pulling strings in the shadows, manipulating a host country's politics for their nefarious aims... Those are the same antisemitic claims used by Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany.
yieldcrv 1y ago
AIPAC is the successor of an organization that the DOJ targeted for lack of FARA disclosure, its simply a reincorporation to slide by But you’re right - putting the military on the OFAC list will be far more effective as it is practically putting economic sanctions on nearly every person in that country It will likely impact pro-Israel non-profits as so many persons involved at all angles are also Israeli citizens, many holding US citizenship too, and it will be prohibited to move money to or from sanctioned people
- shykes 1y ago
  > AIPAC is the successor of an organization that the DOJ targeted for lack of FARA disclosure, its simply a reincorporation to slide by You started from a kernel a historical truth, then distorted it into a false claim... - Historical truth: In 1962 the DOJ ordered the American Zionist Committee to register as a foreign agent, because it received funding from the Jewish Agency for Israel, which was tied to the Israeli government. - Historical truth: around the same time, the AIPAC was created with a very different legal structure, as a fully US-staffed and US-funded organization. The DOJ was satisfied with the new structure, and in its 60+ years of existence, AIPAC has never been investigated by the DOJ for FARA disclosure (or as far as know, for anything else). - Falsehood: "its simply a reincorporation to slide by". You're trying to make it look like AIPAC is structurally the same as the old AZC, making it a foreign agent in all but name. When in fact, the creators of AZC actually followed the law in spirit and letter, and built AIPAC on a completely different legal model, specifically to not be a foreign agent. Of course, the AIPAC model is only possible because enough US citizens and permanent residents genuinely care about supporting Israel, and are willing to donate accordingly. Which brings us back to the original problem... That fact is hard to admit for people like you, who take it for granted that Israel is evil and manipulative, and a pro-Israel foreign policy can only be the result of manipulation. When reality is much simpler: there are Americans who disagree with you, and support Israel. Many of them are American Jews - which antisemites often accuse of duplicity, and lack of loyalty to their host country. Speaking of which... > putting the military on the OFAC list will be far more effective as it is practically putting economic sanctions on nearly every person in that country > It will likely impact pro-Israel non-profits as so many persons involved at all angles are also Israeli citizens, many holding US citizenship too, and it will be prohibited to move money to or from sanctioned people Thank you for reminding me of the importance of supporting pro-Israel candidates at all levels of US government. They are the last line of defense against the antisemitic fever that you and so many others have succumbed to. I will go make a few more donations in your honor.

by shykes 1y ago

MomsAVoxell 1y ago

>You may not like that some US citizens prioritize support for Israel in their donations. That doesn't give you the right to suppress their donations. It's quite simple, treat Israel like Russia. Same tools are available for any nation which commits atrocities under the watchful guise of the mighty, moral, USA.

shykes 1y ago
My point is that you should tell that to the US-based individuals who choose to donate to pro-Israel candidates, or donate to other candidates yourself (if you're legally allowed to), instead of attacking their ability to exercise their right to donate.
- MomsAVoxell 1y ago
  The point is, donations from an active vocal minority aren't the only way to deal with the problem of subjugation of one government to another, especially when those governments are in the process of committing heinous acts of terror, war crimes, and crimes against humanity at massive scale. If it works on Russia, it'll work for Israel.
- muddi900 1y ago
  This is a highly simplistic look at the facts. It is clear that these are not just citizens funding local candidates. Also, they are advocating for a foreign nation. Under FARA rules they should be registered as forein agents.
  - shykes 1y ago
    > It is clear that these are not just citizens funding local candidates Not only is it not clear, it's nonsensical. To summarize the facts: - AIPAC is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit. Their historical role is to vet and recommend candidates; then their members make the actual donations. - Federal law prohibit foreign nationals from contributing directly - Candidates are required by law to enforce this - Donors must provide name, address, occupation and employer if the donation is above $200. So you're basically claiming that AIPAC members are engaged in a conspiracy to break federal election laws. That is a "flat earth" level of conspiracy theory, so the least you could do is provide arguments to back your claim. > Also, they are advocating for a foreign nation. Under FARA rules they should be registered as forein agents. This is false. AIPAC is a US-funded and US-staffed organization, advocating for US foreign policy. It does not receive funding or instructions from Israel. Therefore FARA does not apply to it. Note that I already explained this in my earlier post... Your blind spot is that you can't fathom that US-based individuals legitimately care about US-Israel friendship, and wish to donate to US candidates accordingly. In your mind, AIPAC cannot possibly reflect the political priorities of regular Americans. The only plausible explanation for its influence is a conspiracy by the evil Jewish state, pulling strings in the shadows... I'll point out the elephant in the room: Jews pulling strings in the shadows, manipulating a host country's politics for their nefarious aims... Those are the same antisemitic claims used by Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany.

yieldcrv 1y ago

AIPAC is the successor of an organization that the DOJ targeted for lack of FARA disclosure, its simply a reincorporation to slide by But you’re right - putting the military on the OFAC list will be far more effective as it is practically putting economic sanctions on nearly every person in that country It will likely impact pro-Israel non-profits as so many persons involved at all angles are also Israeli citizens, many holding US citizenship too, and it will be prohibited to move money to or from sanctioned people

shykes 1y ago
> AIPAC is the successor of an organization that the DOJ targeted for lack of FARA disclosure, its simply a reincorporation to slide by You started from a kernel a historical truth, then distorted it into a false claim... - Historical truth: In 1962 the DOJ ordered the American Zionist Committee to register as a foreign agent, because it received funding from the Jewish Agency for Israel, which was tied to the Israeli government. - Historical truth: around the same time, the AIPAC was created with a very different legal structure, as a fully US-staffed and US-funded organization. The DOJ was satisfied with the new structure, and in its 60+ years of existence, AIPAC has never been investigated by the DOJ for FARA disclosure (or as far as know, for anything else). - Falsehood: "its simply a reincorporation to slide by". You're trying to make it look like AIPAC is structurally the same as the old AZC, making it a foreign agent in all but name. When in fact, the creators of AZC actually followed the law in spirit and letter, and built AIPAC on a completely different legal model, specifically to not be a foreign agent. Of course, the AIPAC model is only possible because enough US citizens and permanent residents genuinely care about supporting Israel, and are willing to donate accordingly. Which brings us back to the original problem... That fact is hard to admit for people like you, who take it for granted that Israel is evil and manipulative, and a pro-Israel foreign policy can only be the result of manipulation. When reality is much simpler: there are Americans who disagree with you, and support Israel. Many of them are American Jews - which antisemites often accuse of duplicity, and lack of loyalty to their host country. Speaking of which... > putting the military on the OFAC list will be far more effective as it is practically putting economic sanctions on nearly every person in that country > It will likely impact pro-Israel non-profits as so many persons involved at all angles are also Israeli citizens, many holding US citizenship too, and it will be prohibited to move money to or from sanctioned people Thank you for reminding me of the importance of supporting pro-Israel candidates at all levels of US government. They are the last line of defense against the antisemitic fever that you and so many others have succumbed to. I will go make a few more donations in your honor.