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he hasnt been particularly right with that, in hindsight. the people most excited for freedom and republic are the new immigrants escaping dictators, while the
by 8note 1y ago
he hasnt been particularly right with that, in hindsight. the people most excited for freedom and republic are the new immigrants escaping dictators, while the american born folks are either accepting of or promoting a move towards monarchy.
maybe it was true before the US became the global propagandist, but almost everyone on earth is a native born american now.
- rayiner 1y agoThat’s only true if you define “native born american” as someone who watches Marvel movies. There is no immigrant community of significant size that is culturally American below the surface. None that embodies the self-flagellating communalism of Yankee America, nor the reflexively anti-government individualism of southern america. Even the groups who superficially assimilate into the progressive culture embraced by Yankees do so as subordinates, not peers. The Yankee will condemn his own ancestors and discriminate against people who look like him. Most immigrants are happy to be the objects of that pity, but do not behave in the identical manner. They respect their own ancestors and retain their own ethnic attachments. Virtually everything Hamilton worried about applies to contemporary immigrants to a T.
- habinero 1y agoWhat? This is such weird nonsense. You wanna say that about the Irish and the Polish of a century ago, too? lol
- rayiner 1y agoChicago still suffers from the political machines that were created during mass immigration of Germans and Irish in the 19th century! Immigrants engage in block voting, and political machines arise to whip that vote. That results in corruption, because people’s vote is based on ethnic loyalty and group interests instead of the merits: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/11/24/illinois-democrats-irish-political-hierarchy-521144 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/11/24/illinois-d...
- tptacek 1y agoNo, it doesn't.
- rayiner 1y agoYes it does. Chicago is the poster child for why immigration precludes good governance: https://scholars.luc.edu/ws/portalfiles/portal/40036336/Ethnic%20Political%20Power%20in%20a%20Machine%20City_%20%20Chicagos%20Poles%20at%20Rai.pdf https://scholars.luc.edu/ws/portalfiles/portal/40036336/Ethn... (pp. 527-529).
- tptacek 1y agoThis makes what appears to be the opposite of your claim.
- rayiner 1y agoIn what way? The cited portion, which discusses theories in the field, says: “The rainbow theorists argue that the machine was a functional body (Merton 1968) that pursued political incorporation of many ethnic groups in the political party. In return for loyalty to the political party, machines delivered a variety of social services to ethnic immigrants, in addition to jobs, friendship, and opportunities for social and economic advancement. The rainbow coalition of mostly white-ethnic groups was sustained through a virtually endless supply of ‘municipal gold’ (Erie 1988) that the machines controlled. This exchange system seemingly guaranteed ethnic loyalty to the machine.” The remainder of the article shows how Irish domination left the Polish with the short end of the stick: “Through this study we try to show that Polish Americans in Chicago were on the short end of the exchange arrangements in the machine, receiving few rewards, especially as their independence from the Democratic party expanded during the Daley era.” The Poles were punished This is basically Pakistan, except instead of clans it’s immigrant groups voting for their own co-ethnics and jockeying for advantage. It’s a far cry from the political debates of the founding era, which were based on principles and political theory, not ethnic tribalism.