3 ms·

Hiring non-H1B visa workers would also save them 100k/worker.

by LPisGood 1y ago

mattnewton 1y ago
If you believe the reason the program was started, the US doesn’t have enough workers in those fields.
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  I don't believe it... I think companies just aren't hiring people (or maybe they aren't offering enough pay), not that qualified domestic candidates don't exist. But I could be wrong.
  - tyre 1y ago
    Having interviewed hundreds of software engineers, I’m not convinced that the talent is out there but just hiding. Nor do I believe talent is fungible. Pulling in smart people from all over the world is good for America. I’m sure there are US citizens who would have been better candidates if we had a better education system or grew talent. Maybe this will encourage that, but it’s going to take a long time.
    - majorchord 1y ago
      But if they're hiding, you wouldn't have interviewed them in the first place, right? I don't see how this is comparable. All the smart engineers that I know absolutely struggle to find jobs. There are regularly job threads here on HN or freelance subreddits and other places, that are chocked full of great people desperate for work. But maybe that's really just a small fraction of the people, I can't know for sure.
    - apwell23 1y ago
      > if we had a better education system or grew talent What about yale CS grads working at chipotle. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44854263 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44854263
  - vasilipupkin 1y ago
    you don't believe it why ? you look at American education system and you think it produces multitudes of talented engineers? is it so inconceivable that we need a lot of smart people and we don't produce enough of them locally ?
    - Froztnova 1y ago
      So let's have a thought experiment. We can agree, even if the US primary education system is crap, that the university system is world class. After all, people wouldn't come from other countries to study abroad in the US if it were not competitive. So our CS graduates take the same courses, study the same material, and pass on the same grading scales as these international students from countries like China, India, etc that have come to attend American universities. Therefore it seems unlikely that they are categorically incompetent due to a flaw in their education, even if we make some allowance for them not studying as rigorously as their international peers for whatever reason. However, if the news can be believed, we're now seeing a significant number of CS graduates who are unable to find employment. This is coming on the tail end of a bunch of highly publicized layoffs. The notion that there "Aren't Americans to do these jobs" just doesn't track. I'm sure that there are lots of corporate executives who are saying that there aren't enough qualified Americans to do these jobs, but they're saying that because it's in their best economic interest to say that, not because it's actually true.
      - vasilipupkin 1y ago
        there are too many CS grads without experience who are not very good. We have world class universities, by no means that implies that every new CS graduate is world class. A median CS graduate most likely cannot pass a basic interview in CS
    - majorchord 1y ago
      US is #2 on this list so I think it's safe to say they produce more engineers than most countries, other than Russia. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-engineering-graduates.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-...
LeoPanthera 1y ago
H1B hires are already expensive. Most large tech companies spend quite a lot on legal services. The assumption that a lot of people make, apparently including Trump, is that companies are hiring H1B for no good reason. Or maybe because they think it's cheaper? It's not. In virtually all cases, H1B hires are because there simply aren't any suitable American applicants with the necessary skills.
- Amezarak 1y ago
  Infosys, Tata, and Deloitte are hiring basic programmers. There’s no shortage of American applicants with those skills. I’m sure people will make the argument about FAANG but there’s plenty of Americans for that too. Go look at the experience people are having right now with this job market. There were mass layoffs and new grads every year on top of that.
  - Froztnova 1y ago
    Yeah, I don't understand how people can be arguing that there aren't enough Americans to do this work when we've just gotten off a round of mass layoffs all throughout the tech sector and there are stories about CS grads being unable to find work now. It's transparently obvious that the draw of these employees isn't skill, it's cost. The bottom/middle rung in this field is being hollowed out when it comes to domestic hiring because companies don't care who fills the position so long as they can keep the salary low and the employee locked in, and H-1Bs are the perfect fit for that.
- LPisGood 1y ago
  > In virtually all cases, H1B hires are because there simply aren't any suitable American applicants with the necessary skills. I don’t believe that at all. I believe the opposite, in fact. How do we decide who is right?
  - LeoPanthera 1y ago
    I suppose we are about to find out.

Hiring non-H1B visa workers would also save them 100k/worker.

mattnewton 1y ago

If you believe the reason the program was started, the US doesn’t have enough workers in those fields.

ranger_danger 1y ago
I don't believe it... I think companies just aren't hiring people (or maybe they aren't offering enough pay), not that qualified domestic candidates don't exist. But I could be wrong.
- tyre 1y ago
  Having interviewed hundreds of software engineers, I’m not convinced that the talent is out there but just hiding. Nor do I believe talent is fungible. Pulling in smart people from all over the world is good for America. I’m sure there are US citizens who would have been better candidates if we had a better education system or grew talent. Maybe this will encourage that, but it’s going to take a long time.
  - majorchord 1y ago
    But if they're hiding, you wouldn't have interviewed them in the first place, right? I don't see how this is comparable. All the smart engineers that I know absolutely struggle to find jobs. There are regularly job threads here on HN or freelance subreddits and other places, that are chocked full of great people desperate for work. But maybe that's really just a small fraction of the people, I can't know for sure.
  - apwell23 1y ago
    > if we had a better education system or grew talent What about yale CS grads working at chipotle. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44854263 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44854263
- vasilipupkin 1y ago
  you don't believe it why ? you look at American education system and you think it produces multitudes of talented engineers? is it so inconceivable that we need a lot of smart people and we don't produce enough of them locally ?
  - Froztnova 1y ago
    So let's have a thought experiment. We can agree, even if the US primary education system is crap, that the university system is world class. After all, people wouldn't come from other countries to study abroad in the US if it were not competitive. So our CS graduates take the same courses, study the same material, and pass on the same grading scales as these international students from countries like China, India, etc that have come to attend American universities. Therefore it seems unlikely that they are categorically incompetent due to a flaw in their education, even if we make some allowance for them not studying as rigorously as their international peers for whatever reason. However, if the news can be believed, we're now seeing a significant number of CS graduates who are unable to find employment. This is coming on the tail end of a bunch of highly publicized layoffs. The notion that there "Aren't Americans to do these jobs" just doesn't track. I'm sure that there are lots of corporate executives who are saying that there aren't enough qualified Americans to do these jobs, but they're saying that because it's in their best economic interest to say that, not because it's actually true.
    - vasilipupkin 1y ago
      there are too many CS grads without experience who are not very good. We have world class universities, by no means that implies that every new CS graduate is world class. A median CS graduate most likely cannot pass a basic interview in CS
  - majorchord 1y ago
    US is #2 on this list so I think it's safe to say they produce more engineers than most countries, other than Russia. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-engineering-graduates.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-...

LeoPanthera 1y ago

H1B hires are already expensive. Most large tech companies spend quite a lot on legal services. The assumption that a lot of people make, apparently including Trump, is that companies are hiring H1B for no good reason. Or maybe because they think it's cheaper? It's not. In virtually all cases, H1B hires are because there simply aren't any suitable American applicants with the necessary skills.

Amezarak 1y ago
Infosys, Tata, and Deloitte are hiring basic programmers. There’s no shortage of American applicants with those skills. I’m sure people will make the argument about FAANG but there’s plenty of Americans for that too. Go look at the experience people are having right now with this job market. There were mass layoffs and new grads every year on top of that.
- Froztnova 1y ago
  Yeah, I don't understand how people can be arguing that there aren't enough Americans to do this work when we've just gotten off a round of mass layoffs all throughout the tech sector and there are stories about CS grads being unable to find work now. It's transparently obvious that the draw of these employees isn't skill, it's cost. The bottom/middle rung in this field is being hollowed out when it comes to domestic hiring because companies don't care who fills the position so long as they can keep the salary low and the employee locked in, and H-1Bs are the perfect fit for that.
LPisGood 1y ago
> In virtually all cases, H1B hires are because there simply aren't any suitable American applicants with the necessary skills. I don’t believe that at all. I believe the opposite, in fact. How do we decide who is right?
- LeoPanthera 1y ago
  I suppose we are about to find out.