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Color Film of London From 1902 Now Fully Restored

73 points by McKittrick 14y ago

WalterBright 14y ago
After looking at the film, I suspect that some more restoration work could get rid of the color smearing.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  If you watch the explanatory video, you see that successive frames were subject to different filters. A spinning color filter (blue, green, red) ran in front of the film, and within each set of three frames, you had successive shots filtered for blue, green, and red. In any scene in which there was motion of either the subject or the camera, you'll then see a slight mis-registration of each of the three component colors. It's an artifact of the process. Modern film works by combining all three colors on a single spool of film and bringing out the color through the development process. An alternate method would be to shoot with three separate lenses onto three separate frames, though you'd then get parallax color artifacts (as with the Prokudin-Gorskii process, posted to HN recently).
  - WalterBright 14y ago
    I understand why the color mismatch exists. I just think that can be corrected for, even if it is done by hand frame by frame. Since the information is on the film, I don't think this would be false restoration. I see it as akin to projects that try to remove scratches and damage by merging in undamaged sections from previous and following frames.
    - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
      Progressive-scan DVDs do precisely this kind of correction.
      - delinka 14y ago
        This film is very different from interlaced video. Interlaced video fields (the two parts of a single frame) are captured at different points in time. This film has frames captured at different points in time. The similarity ends here. With interlaced video, the two fields make a single frame. With this film, every frame is displayed three times: First, with the two frames that precede it; next, with the one that precedes it and the one that follows; lastly, with the two that follow. Every frame (with the exception of the beginning and the end) would be displayed three times. Now, we can certainly create our own "full color" frames by successively combining every three frames (1-2-3; 2-3-4; 3-4-5; 5-6-7; e-t-c) but now, I believe, we either have to have some intelligence in software to find parts from other frames that can be moved and morphed to align with preceding frames; or we need a human to manually move and morph these bits of each of our new "frame." Not precisely the same as converting interlaced to progressive scan.
        JoeAltmaier 14y ago
        Ok, the frame construction is different. But the video processing issue is the same. Captures from different points in time need to be integrated to avoid the edges blurring (or feathering with interlacing). Signal processing algorithms attempt to do feature and edge detection and realign them in the composite frame.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
geuis 14y ago
Direct link: http://nationalmediamuseumblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/edward-raymond-turner-discovery-re-writes-history-of-early-film/ http://nationalmediamuseumblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/edwa... Also previously submitted: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4513662 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4513662
chime 14y ago
I wish someone like the creator of Curiosity Descent footage ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esj5juUzhpU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esj5juUzhpU ) could get their hands on the three separate RGB channels and combine them manually. The frames did not seem to be overlaid properly and combining 1R + 2B + 3G as 1F, 2B + 3G + 4R as 2F etc. caused offsets in every frame.
- ComputerGuru 14y ago
  That Curiosity descent video was amazing. Here's an even better side-by-side with "director's cut" captions explaining what's being done: http://youtu.be/pjeHZ9poew4 http://youtu.be/pjeHZ9poew4 Thanks for sharing. But in answer to your question - the RGB channels are there - you can download the h264 vid and decompose (sure, you'll some quality, but that's not the real blocker). The real issue is the time - if you believe him, the Mars Curiosity guy says it took him a month to pull that off: "It took 29 days from start to finish, working full-time on it for the last week. This was the most laborious media project that I’ve ever done. But I don't regret a minute of it. ", so you'd have to convince him to do it.. But you can probably PM him on Reddit if you're serious enough ;) http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=bard_canning http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=bard_canning
  - farnsworth 14y ago
    Hm, maybe he could fund a full restoration with Kickstarter...
    - bardcanning 14y ago
      That's actually not a bad idea... the footage does appear to be quite long - and with having to stabilize the three RGB channel frames separately it would take three times as long. I would probably have to put aside a significant chunk of time in order to get it done. People have been so amazing and supportive of the Curiosity video - I might just give it a try! It would certainly be a big project - but wouldn't it be amazing to make the first ever color movie crisp, clear and stable!
JoeAltmaier 14y ago
Funny: while the Macaw and the director's children were in brilliant color, the panorama of London was black-and-white. Why? Because London was black-and-white. Black cars, black clothes, grey stone buildings. Not the best subject for a color film, but interesting historically. Also: not only first color film, but first color-film director, actors.
phreeza 14y ago
Am I misunderstanding something or is the animation in the video clip at around 3:00 wrong? There it looks as if a single frame is exposed to all three colors sequentially, while really the color disk should be rotating in a way that ensures that a frame always represents the same color while moving?
- delinka 14y ago
  The animation is incorrect: The color wheel has the colors "moving" up and the film moving down. When a red frame enters from the top, it should be projected as red for all three of its appearances on the screen.
bane 14y ago
Amazingly, not that different from the first color TV prototyps and modern-ish DLP tvs in how they render the image. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_television#All-mechanical_color http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_television#All-mechanical... http://www.amazon.com/Color-Wheel-Samsung-DLP-H-Series/dp/B001CTNRX0 http://www.amazon.com/Color-Wheel-Samsung-DLP-H-Series/dp/B0...

73 points by McKittrick 14y ago

WalterBright 14y ago

After looking at the film, I suspect that some more restoration work could get rid of the color smearing.

dredmorbius 14y ago
If you watch the explanatory video, you see that successive frames were subject to different filters. A spinning color filter (blue, green, red) ran in front of the film, and within each set of three frames, you had successive shots filtered for blue, green, and red. In any scene in which there was motion of either the subject or the camera, you'll then see a slight mis-registration of each of the three component colors. It's an artifact of the process. Modern film works by combining all three colors on a single spool of film and bringing out the color through the development process. An alternate method would be to shoot with three separate lenses onto three separate frames, though you'd then get parallax color artifacts (as with the Prokudin-Gorskii process, posted to HN recently).
- WalterBright 14y ago
  I understand why the color mismatch exists. I just think that can be corrected for, even if it is done by hand frame by frame. Since the information is on the film, I don't think this would be false restoration. I see it as akin to projects that try to remove scratches and damage by merging in undamaged sections from previous and following frames.
  - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
    Progressive-scan DVDs do precisely this kind of correction.
    - delinka 14y ago
      This film is very different from interlaced video. Interlaced video fields (the two parts of a single frame) are captured at different points in time. This film has frames captured at different points in time. The similarity ends here. With interlaced video, the two fields make a single frame. With this film, every frame is displayed three times: First, with the two frames that precede it; next, with the one that precedes it and the one that follows; lastly, with the two that follow. Every frame (with the exception of the beginning and the end) would be displayed three times. Now, we can certainly create our own "full color" frames by successively combining every three frames (1-2-3; 2-3-4; 3-4-5; 5-6-7; e-t-c) but now, I believe, we either have to have some intelligence in software to find parts from other frames that can be moved and morphed to align with preceding frames; or we need a human to manually move and morph these bits of each of our new "frame." Not precisely the same as converting interlaced to progressive scan.
      - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
        Ok, the frame construction is different. But the video processing issue is the same. Captures from different points in time need to be integrated to avoid the edges blurring (or feathering with interlacing). Signal processing algorithms attempt to do feature and edge detection and realign them in the composite frame.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

geuis 14y ago

Direct link: http://nationalmediamuseumblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/edward-raymond-turner-discovery-re-writes-history-of-early-film/ http://nationalmediamuseumblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/edwa... Also previously submitted: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4513662 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4513662

chime 14y ago

I wish someone like the creator of Curiosity Descent footage ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esj5juUzhpU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esj5juUzhpU ) could get their hands on the three separate RGB channels and combine them manually. The frames did not seem to be overlaid properly and combining 1R + 2B + 3G as 1F, 2B + 3G + 4R as 2F etc. caused offsets in every frame.

ComputerGuru 14y ago
That Curiosity descent video was amazing. Here's an even better side-by-side with "director's cut" captions explaining what's being done: http://youtu.be/pjeHZ9poew4 http://youtu.be/pjeHZ9poew4 Thanks for sharing. But in answer to your question - the RGB channels are there - you can download the h264 vid and decompose (sure, you'll some quality, but that's not the real blocker). The real issue is the time - if you believe him, the Mars Curiosity guy says it took him a month to pull that off: "It took 29 days from start to finish, working full-time on it for the last week. This was the most laborious media project that I’ve ever done. But I don't regret a minute of it. ", so you'd have to convince him to do it.. But you can probably PM him on Reddit if you're serious enough ;) http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=bard_canning http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=bard_canning
- farnsworth 14y ago
  Hm, maybe he could fund a full restoration with Kickstarter...
  - bardcanning 14y ago
    That's actually not a bad idea... the footage does appear to be quite long - and with having to stabilize the three RGB channel frames separately it would take three times as long. I would probably have to put aside a significant chunk of time in order to get it done. People have been so amazing and supportive of the Curiosity video - I might just give it a try! It would certainly be a big project - but wouldn't it be amazing to make the first ever color movie crisp, clear and stable!

JoeAltmaier 14y ago

Funny: while the Macaw and the director's children were in brilliant color, the panorama of London was black-and-white. Why? Because London was black-and-white. Black cars, black clothes, grey stone buildings. Not the best subject for a color film, but interesting historically. Also: not only first color film, but first color-film director, actors.

phreeza 14y ago

Am I misunderstanding something or is the animation in the video clip at around 3:00 wrong? There it looks as if a single frame is exposed to all three colors sequentially, while really the color disk should be rotating in a way that ensures that a frame always represents the same color while moving?

delinka 14y ago
The animation is incorrect: The color wheel has the colors "moving" up and the film moving down. When a red frame enters from the top, it should be projected as red for all three of its appearances on the screen.

bane 14y ago

Amazingly, not that different from the first color TV prototyps and modern-ish DLP tvs in how they render the image. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_television#All-mechanical_color http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_television#All-mechanical... http://www.amazon.com/Color-Wheel-Samsung-DLP-H-Series/dp/B001CTNRX0 http://www.amazon.com/Color-Wheel-Samsung-DLP-H-Series/dp/B0...