3 ms·

This isn't wayland's fault. It's the compositor implementing wayland's fault for not exposing a window manager API. Nothing about wayland prohibits the creation

This isn't wayland's fault. It's the compositor implementing wayland's fault for not exposing a window manager API. Nothing about wayland prohibits the creation of a window manager API.

Ferret7446 1y ago
Nothing stopped the adopters from waiting until that existed before pushing Wayland into their software and breaking many people's workflow either, yet here we are
chongli 1y ago
I’ve heard the same thing about Wayland and NVidia’s drivers. To me, it seems like Wayland was designed to push all the hard work onto everybody else. That way Wayland never gets blamed for anything!
- charcircuit 1y ago
  Not having a defacto compositor was a major blunder and resulted in an enormous delay to the project, reputational damage, and numerous challenges for app developers.
  - chongli 1y ago
    What I don’t get is why they pushed the compositor onto WM developers in the first place. Compositing seems like way too low level of a task for a window manager to be concerned with.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    Do you mean default compositor?
    - c-hendricks 1y ago
      I think they meant like a reference implementation, wlroots came a decade into Wayland
    - charcircuit 1y ago
      I mean they should have made Weston production grade and extensible so that others can integrate with it instead of remaking their own compositors.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
scythe 1y ago
For practical purposes, the problem with Wayland from the WM-dev's PoV is that you're either implementing a huge project or you're depending on wlroots, and wlroots still isn't where it would need to be for implementing a simple window manager to be as easy as it was with X11. From the Wayland devs' PoV, mainstreaming Wayland successfully shifted responsibility for doing most of the heavy lifting in the graphics layer from the neglected X-Windows project to the well-established KDE and GNOME. The state of wlroots and the ecosystem of personal WM projects is unavoidable collateral damage. For an individual developer, perhaps the thing to do is take a page out of bbLean's [1] bag of tricks and implement your WM on top of one of the big two desktop environments. https://bb4win.sourceforge.net/bblean/ https://bb4win.sourceforge.net/bblean/
- charcircuit 1y ago
  The problem is that compositors aren't giving you an API to target. Hyperland has plugins, but that is a whole other can of worms.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

This isn't wayland's fault. It's the compositor implementing wayland's fault for not exposing a window manager API. Nothing about wayland prohibits the creation of a window manager API.

Ferret7446 1y ago

Nothing stopped the adopters from waiting until that existed before pushing Wayland into their software and breaking many people's workflow either, yet here we are

chongli 1y ago

I’ve heard the same thing about Wayland and NVidia’s drivers. To me, it seems like Wayland was designed to push all the hard work onto everybody else. That way Wayland never gets blamed for anything!

charcircuit 1y ago
Not having a defacto compositor was a major blunder and resulted in an enormous delay to the project, reputational damage, and numerous challenges for app developers.
- chongli 1y ago
  What I don’t get is why they pushed the compositor onto WM developers in the first place. Compositing seems like way too low level of a task for a window manager to be concerned with.
- hollerith 1y ago
  Do you mean default compositor?
  - c-hendricks 1y ago
    I think they meant like a reference implementation, wlroots came a decade into Wayland
  - charcircuit 1y ago
    I mean they should have made Weston production grade and extensible so that others can integrate with it instead of remaking their own compositors.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]

scythe 1y ago

For practical purposes, the problem with Wayland from the WM-dev's PoV is that you're either implementing a huge project or you're depending on wlroots, and wlroots still isn't where it would need to be for implementing a simple window manager to be as easy as it was with X11. From the Wayland devs' PoV, mainstreaming Wayland successfully shifted responsibility for doing most of the heavy lifting in the graphics layer from the neglected X-Windows project to the well-established KDE and GNOME. The state of wlroots and the ecosystem of personal WM projects is unavoidable collateral damage. For an individual developer, perhaps the thing to do is take a page out of bbLean's [1] bag of tricks and implement your WM on top of one of the big two desktop environments. https://bb4win.sourceforge.net/bblean/ https://bb4win.sourceforge.net/bblean/

charcircuit 1y ago
The problem is that compositors aren't giving you an API to target. Hyperland has plugins, but that is a whole other can of worms.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]