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I hire a programmer to code my app, SuperConnect++. I charge $0.99 to download the app. People buy the app if it's worth more than $0.99 to them. If 150,000 pe

I hire a programmer to code my app, SuperConnect++. I charge $0.99 to download the app. People buy the app if it's worth more than $0.99 to them. If 150,000 people buy the app, then I have ~$150,000 of revenue. I can pay a programmer $100,000 a year and have $50,000 left over. 150,000 people benefited from the app. Now say I have to pay an additional $100,000 visa fee for my programmer. My cost of $200,000 is less than my revenue of $150,000. I don't build the app. I don't get $50,000. 150,000 people who would have bought the app don't benefit from it. The biggest loss is to the Americans who don't get to buy the app. There are other possibilities, maybe I increase the price to $1.99 or I hire an American. We can see that those are both bad. The former extracts $150,000 extra dollars from American consumers. Since unemployment is low for Americans and an American programmer can't have two jobs at once, the later just means that some other project that the American programmer would have worked on is not completed.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
Unemployment for tech workers is not currently low, and it is taking months, or even years to find a new role, therefore this argument doesn’t hold water. Wages > consumer excess and profits. The world will go on if you don’t build the app, and perhaps someone else will. The evidence is clear this visa is abused at scale, and this action has been overdue. https://www.epi.org/blog/tech-and-outsourcing-companies-continue-to-exploit-the-h-1b-visa-program-at-a-time-of-mass-layoffs-the-top-30-h-1b-employers-hired-34000-new-h-1b-workers-in-2022-and-laid-off-at-least-85000-workers/ https://www.epi.org/blog/tech-and-outsourcing-companies-cont... https://www.epi.org/publication/new-evidence-widespread-wage-theft-in-the-h-1b-program/ https://www.epi.org/publication/new-evidence-widespread-wage...
- charliea0 1y ago
  The unemployment rate in the information-technology job market is 4.5%?
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Over 650k tech layoffs have occurred in the last 4 years. Companies have tried as hard as they can to offshore and use visa labor to avoid hiring US citizen workers. This doesn’t account for new job creation needed for workers entering the workforce. Corporations are also hiding jobs from US citizens (citations which you can find in my other recent comments). https://layoffs.fyi/ https://layoffs.fyi/ Ask HN: Has anyone else been unemployed for over two years? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45306539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45306539 - September 2025 Ask HN: Recent unemployed CS grad what do I do? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211153 - March 2025 https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/state-of-the-tech-market-in-2025 https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/state-of-the-tech... https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/04/it_job_market_july/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/04/it_job_market_july/ https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/job-market-report-college-student-graduates-ai-trump-tariffs-rcna221693 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/job-market-report-c... https://www.axios.com/2025/07/06/unemployment-job-market-education-health-care https://www.axios.com/2025/07/06/unemployment-job-market-edu... https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1kcc40j/what_happened_to_the_job_market/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1kcc40j/what_happ... https://apnews.com/article/college-graduates-job-market-unemployment-c5e881d0a5c069de08085a47fa58f90f https://apnews.com/article/college-graduates-job-market-unem...
    - charliea0 1y ago
      Given all of that, the unemployment rate is still only 4.5%.
      - toomuchtodo 1y ago
        Sounds like the metric is unreliable and cannot be trusted as input for policy, based on the evidence and ground truth. U-6 (the most inclusive unemployment rate) is 8.1 as of this comment, the highest it’s been in the last five years: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE So, start cutting labor visas until the unemployment rate improves. The domestic labor clearly exists.
charliea0 1y ago
To make this concrete, suppose that Elon Musk never immigrated to the US. SpaceX and Tesla are never founded, or are founded in some other country. The American electric car market is never kickstarted, none of the American employees of SpaceX or Tesla are hired, there is no space renaissance. Keeping out Elon Musk is somewhat good for United Launch Alliance and for Ford, but it's worse for all the Americans who have to buy worse cars and pay more for satellite internet.
- sokoloff 1y ago
  To make this concrete, Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning founded Tesla Motors. Musk later invested and, most certainly, made it vastly more successful than the two founders were on track to do, but Tesla Motors was already founded without requiring Musk's immigration to the US.
  - charliea0 1y ago
    That's a very fair point. :)
- kashunstva 1y ago
  > suppose that Elon Musk never immigrated to the US That’s certainly one version of how events may have been different - a sort of “It’s a Wonderful Life” scenario. (Though comparing Elon Musk to the kind and ethical George Bailey would be quite a stretch!) But it’s not inconceivable that other possibilities would have emerged.
ipaddr 1y ago
Those 150,000 spend a dollar on a different app. You are taking 150,000 away from another business.

toomuchtodo 1y ago

Unemployment for tech workers is not currently low, and it is taking months, or even years to find a new role, therefore this argument doesn’t hold water. Wages > consumer excess and profits. The world will go on if you don’t build the app, and perhaps someone else will. The evidence is clear this visa is abused at scale, and this action has been overdue. https://www.epi.org/blog/tech-and-outsourcing-companies-continue-to-exploit-the-h-1b-visa-program-at-a-time-of-mass-layoffs-the-top-30-h-1b-employers-hired-34000-new-h-1b-workers-in-2022-and-laid-off-at-least-85000-workers/ https://www.epi.org/blog/tech-and-outsourcing-companies-cont... https://www.epi.org/publication/new-evidence-widespread-wage-theft-in-the-h-1b-program/ https://www.epi.org/publication/new-evidence-widespread-wage...

charliea0 1y ago
The unemployment rate in the information-technology job market is 4.5%?
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Over 650k tech layoffs have occurred in the last 4 years. Companies have tried as hard as they can to offshore and use visa labor to avoid hiring US citizen workers. This doesn’t account for new job creation needed for workers entering the workforce. Corporations are also hiding jobs from US citizens (citations which you can find in my other recent comments). https://layoffs.fyi/ https://layoffs.fyi/ Ask HN: Has anyone else been unemployed for over two years? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45306539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45306539 - September 2025 Ask HN: Recent unemployed CS grad what do I do? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211153 - March 2025 https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/state-of-the-tech-market-in-2025 https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/state-of-the-tech... https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/04/it_job_market_july/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/04/it_job_market_july/ https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/job-market-report-college-student-graduates-ai-trump-tariffs-rcna221693 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/job-market-report-c... https://www.axios.com/2025/07/06/unemployment-job-market-education-health-care https://www.axios.com/2025/07/06/unemployment-job-market-edu... https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1kcc40j/what_happened_to_the_job_market/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1kcc40j/what_happ... https://apnews.com/article/college-graduates-job-market-unemployment-c5e881d0a5c069de08085a47fa58f90f https://apnews.com/article/college-graduates-job-market-unem...
  - charliea0 1y ago
    Given all of that, the unemployment rate is still only 4.5%.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      Sounds like the metric is unreliable and cannot be trusted as input for policy, based on the evidence and ground truth. U-6 (the most inclusive unemployment rate) is 8.1 as of this comment, the highest it’s been in the last five years: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE So, start cutting labor visas until the unemployment rate improves. The domestic labor clearly exists.

charliea0 1y ago

To make this concrete, suppose that Elon Musk never immigrated to the US. SpaceX and Tesla are never founded, or are founded in some other country. The American electric car market is never kickstarted, none of the American employees of SpaceX or Tesla are hired, there is no space renaissance. Keeping out Elon Musk is somewhat good for United Launch Alliance and for Ford, but it's worse for all the Americans who have to buy worse cars and pay more for satellite internet.

sokoloff 1y ago
To make this concrete, Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning founded Tesla Motors. Musk later invested and, most certainly, made it vastly more successful than the two founders were on track to do, but Tesla Motors was already founded without requiring Musk's immigration to the US.
- charliea0 1y ago
  That's a very fair point. :)
kashunstva 1y ago
> suppose that Elon Musk never immigrated to the US That’s certainly one version of how events may have been different - a sort of “It’s a Wonderful Life” scenario. (Though comparing Elon Musk to the kind and ethical George Bailey would be quite a stretch!) But it’s not inconceivable that other possibilities would have emerged.

ipaddr 1y ago

Those 150,000 spend a dollar on a different app. You are taking 150,000 away from another business.