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Somewhat tangential, but I wish there were more comprehensive learning resources for Clojure, particularly getting started with web development. Given that ther

Somewhat tangential, but I wish there were more comprehensive learning resources for Clojure, particularly getting started with web development. Given that there is no equivalent of Django or Rails, and web development in clj is really about assembling a collection of libraries (Ring, Compojure/Moustache, Enlive/Hiccup etc), it is much harder for the initiate to understand how everything fits together. The fact that Rails is so opinionated also really helps the new developer become productive in a relatively short timeframe. I'd imagine this would apply to just about any other language as well really. The Ruby community really is fortunate to have such brilliant free resources out there for learning Rails and the language.

znt 14y ago
Have you tried Noir? (http://webnoir.org/ http://webnoir.org/)
- squidsoup 14y ago
  Yes, in fact I'm building my MVP on Noir. Noir is an excellent place to start, but I suspect the documentation and tutorials are not keeping up with the state of the framework and all of the awesome periphery things that Chris Granger is working on in the Clojurescript space. Initially there was going to be a complimentary framework for Noir called Pinot for client-side code (clojurescript), which has since been broken up into a number of different libraries. Having more guidance around structuring large projects with these new tools (https://github.com/ibdknox/fetch https://github.com/ibdknox/fetch, https://github.com/ibdknox/crate https://github.com/ibdknox/crate, https://github.com/ibdknox/jayq https://github.com/ibdknox/jayq) in the context of a Noir app would be superb. I suspect these things will come given time - web development in Clojure is evolving very quickly and compared to Ruby is relatively new. The Clojure community is also much smaller than the Ruby community I would imagine, so it follows that there will be fewer learning resources about.
programminggeek 14y ago
Um, why exactly would you use something like Clojure if you're not comfortable building up your own particular set of libraries that you like for your project? Clojure to me seems like a language culture that would likely tend towards smaller libraries that do specific things than something with batteries included and such like Rails. If you want something on the JVM with more of a batteries included approach Play Framework for Java and Scala is pretty nice and Lift for Scala is cool if you're willing to take a very different approach to your web stack.
- squidsoup 14y ago
  > Um, why exactly would you use something like Clojure if you're not comfortable building up your own particular set of libraries that you like for your project? I decided upon Clojure as I think it meets the needs of my project well, which is basically an expert system. I need to consume a number of domain specific java libraries, and the native support for logic programming with core.logic and datalog is a big win. Clojure certainly wasn't the easiest choice - I would be much further ahead if I started with Ruby. > Clojure to me seems like a language culture that would likely tend towards smaller libraries that do specific things than something with batteries included and such like Rails. I should clarify that I think Clojure's favouring of smaller composable libraries is ultimately a better approach than the monolithic framework. It is much more difficult to get to a point where you're productive however.

znt 14y ago

Have you tried Noir? (http://webnoir.org/ http://webnoir.org/)

squidsoup 14y ago
Yes, in fact I'm building my MVP on Noir. Noir is an excellent place to start, but I suspect the documentation and tutorials are not keeping up with the state of the framework and all of the awesome periphery things that Chris Granger is working on in the Clojurescript space. Initially there was going to be a complimentary framework for Noir called Pinot for client-side code (clojurescript), which has since been broken up into a number of different libraries. Having more guidance around structuring large projects with these new tools (https://github.com/ibdknox/fetch https://github.com/ibdknox/fetch, https://github.com/ibdknox/crate https://github.com/ibdknox/crate, https://github.com/ibdknox/jayq https://github.com/ibdknox/jayq) in the context of a Noir app would be superb. I suspect these things will come given time - web development in Clojure is evolving very quickly and compared to Ruby is relatively new. The Clojure community is also much smaller than the Ruby community I would imagine, so it follows that there will be fewer learning resources about.

programminggeek 14y ago

Um, why exactly would you use something like Clojure if you're not comfortable building up your own particular set of libraries that you like for your project? Clojure to me seems like a language culture that would likely tend towards smaller libraries that do specific things than something with batteries included and such like Rails. If you want something on the JVM with more of a batteries included approach Play Framework for Java and Scala is pretty nice and Lift for Scala is cool if you're willing to take a very different approach to your web stack.

squidsoup 14y ago
> Um, why exactly would you use something like Clojure if you're not comfortable building up your own particular set of libraries that you like for your project? I decided upon Clojure as I think it meets the needs of my project well, which is basically an expert system. I need to consume a number of domain specific java libraries, and the native support for logic programming with core.logic and datalog is a big win. Clojure certainly wasn't the easiest choice - I would be much further ahead if I started with Ruby. > Clojure to me seems like a language culture that would likely tend towards smaller libraries that do specific things than something with batteries included and such like Rails. I should clarify that I think Clojure's favouring of smaller composable libraries is ultimately a better approach than the monolithic framework. It is much more difficult to get to a point where you're productive however.