10 ms·

Apple's got the tightest hardware, best performance, best sales channel, widest distribution, widest manufacturing channel, best service, best support, best thi

by jpxxx 14y ago

Apple's got the tightest hardware, best performance, best sales channel, widest distribution, widest manufacturing channel, best service, best support, best third-party ecosystem, best carrier support, best -working- voice assistant service, best customer satisfaction, highest re-up rates, highest subscriber retention rates, highest ARPU, clearest UX, strongest developer support, widest app selection, highest ASP, best margin, best packaging, best pack-ins, most robust "cloud", deepest content library, widest content market coverage, highest perceived status, strongest brand name, and the thickest boot pressing into the necks of more carriers than any other smartphone line in the entire world. But all of this is going to be chalked up to "marketing" creating "sheeple" who voluntarily line up for the slaughter.

te_chris 14y ago
Most robust "cloud"? Really? You know their main competitor is google right? The company that has been responsible for millions of people embracing the cloud before apple even cared it existed?
- batgaijin 14y ago
  Their main competitor is carrier phones that don't handle OS updates in a timely manner/at all. I have an android phone with cyanogen, but if someone complained about android I'd be totally understanding. The stock stuff is terrible.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    Uh, what's wrong with stock Android? The issue is with carrier/OEM modifications.
    - batgaijin 14y ago
      Sorry, that's what I meant.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Yes, really. I argue that iCloud is a more robust and coherent offering at this point. It goes toe-to-toe with Android Backup when it comes to backing up relevant user-state (like SMS history, a very valuable datatype), offers desirable features like find-a-phone and remote wipe, offers unsexy but fundamental functionality like Notes round-tripping, and offers ad-free IMAP mailboxes that don't explode on contact with desktop clients. iCloud still doesn't offer arbitrary file storage like Google Drive and its photo story is inadequate and confusing. But it is competitive on the whole, and Apple found some dogwhistle to blow that made "iCloud" a real thing for extremely tech-uninvolved people. (I'm not sure if this was anything they actually did on their part or if it was just coincident with the "cloud" buzzword coming to mean "I, the user, won't lose my stuff if my phone/laptop breaks") Also, Android backup is not a freebie: the manufacturer needs to be playing by OHA rules and staying in Google's good graces so that they can get access to all those Google-backed goodies. And then of course there's carrier-cloud and the vaporous S-Cloud and Asus cloud and all the third-party services and and.... and... Apple's put it together under one brand name and an ID you already have.
  - cageface 14y ago
    I argue that iCloud is a more robust and coherent offering at this point. Robust is highly debatable, but the big problem with iCloud is that it's restricted to Apple devices only and is really only a benefit if you live entirely in the Apple ecosystem. The last few iOS apps I've written for clients haven't used it because we need to support Android and/or non-Mac desktop users as well.
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      Quite true. But then in a world of Asus Cloud and S-cloud you're still in the same boat. Backup, sync, and asst. services are fragmenting.
      - cageface 14y ago
        Sure but the point is that any truly competitive cloud service has to be cross platform.
mtgx 14y ago
Best voice assistant service? You must've missed all the comparisons with Google's Voice Search, which shows significantly better results, and is faster, too.
- batista 14y ago
  No, I saw those comparison videos. Google's results were far worse. And it's not about "voice search", it's about "voice assistant".
- shawndumas 14y ago
  what happens, in jellybean, if you schedule an appointment via voice for an already taken time slot?
busyant 14y ago
All of what you mention may be true (I don't really know if it is), but spending 8 days in line for a phone (even a great one) seems out of proportion even when taking into consideration all of the superlatives you mention. I think that's where "sheeple" gets some traction.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  This line is composed of attention seekers taking advantage of a colossal and global attention machine in action.
nwienert 14y ago
A large portion of your points don't matter to a majority of consumers: sales channel, distribution, manufacturing channel, carrier support, re-up rates, retention rates (difference?), ARPU, dev support, ASP, margin, packaging, perceived status. Some are duplicates (service/support, re-up/retention, deepest/widest content, status/brand). Another portion are purely opinion... cloud, dev support, "pack ins" (?), voice assistant (google now often performce better), performance (its a wash), UX (many people prefer customizable UX). Some are even negative to certain people such as their brand, ARPU (high margins), and their cloud (not supporting alternatives). And of course that doesn't count the many, many categories they do poorly in that are important to people. Off the top of my head are customizability, open technologies, keyboard (software), screen size, choice in hardware features and software features (default browsers, default apps, etc), extensibility, tech standards/ports, 3rd part extensibility, navigation (seems like IO6 maps are getting bad reviews thus far), and richer apps that can integrate beyond the strict sandbox, etc. Finally, their marketing is one of their strongest traits and so of course marketing is a huge driver of sales. Not that I agree with calling anyone "sheeple", so not really sure what your point was.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Re-up is staying on the same phone. Retention is staying on the same carrier. Performance is not a wash, even comparing flagship phones. My greater point is that without excelling in all of those things I mentioned, people wouldn't be lining up. An iPhone launch would have all the public excitement of a crate of HTC Wonkadoodles being dumped out on the floor of some Verizon kiosk. Nativist zealotry and jealousy is blinding a lot of otherwise thoughtful people to how well Apple is executing and just preposterously powerful they're becoming. I'm not cheering it, I'm just pointing it out. Their products are competitive, they are desirable, and their current profit share and market share strongly argues that they're choosing the right areas to optimize.
  - nwienert 14y ago
    I'd like to see some real-world metrics on performance. Apps or features that open/run significant more quickly in a side-by-side. From what I read here (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4530188 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4530188 see first two comments and http://browser.primatelabs.com/android-benchmarks http://browser.primatelabs.com/android-benchmarks) it seems like they are pretty identical. Software-wise perhaps the buttery scrolling is still a very slight advantage, but not to be a selling point anymore. But I do agree, as far as selling phones they win on key areas that other companies can't touch, mostly... brand, store experience, customer service in store, packaging, hardware design and tight software integration. Still doesn't rationalize waiting for 8 days or even 2 days for a phone!
cageface 14y ago
According to the article the people in line are just trying to grab some free publicity for themselves. Apple's doing a lot of things right, to be sure, but their phone market share is still sliding, the newer flagship Android phones are extremely competitive, and the gap in the app market has narrowed considerably in the last year. Perhaps worst of all, they seem to be cruising on the momentum of earlier successes, with their rigid UI essentially unchanged since 2007 except a continued cynical slide into gratuitous skeuomorphism. They need a post-Jobs new home run product in the next 2-3 years. Personally I'm pretty happy with the way the mobile market is shaping up right now because, in the long run, a monoculture with one dominant player is boring.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  I completely agree with everything you said. This is a Samsun and Apple game, with Samsung occupying every niche and market Apple won't take. There's no third platform evolving. And yeah, if Apple goes sub-$200, it's going to have to be with a wizzy new design. The flagship model is maturing.
  - cageface 14y ago
    I don't like Microsoft as a company but I would like to see WP8 become a real alternative. They're taking some bold chances with their UI and a three horse race would be more interesting.
digeridoo 14y ago
Apple is in the same branch as sports clubs and religious institutions. They have wildly different products, but a similar way of working: speaking to people's basic desire to be part of something greater than them. With the same vigour that religious devotees promote their book, and sports fans promote their football club, Apple customers promote their phone. That's fine, it's human. In many cases there is some truth to it. I'm guilty of at least one of these 3. It's also perfectly normal that you view your behaviour in this regard as being rational, while it actually isn't.
keeperofdakeys 14y ago
Besides more then a few of these being more opinion then fact, I don't think the wider application selection is valid like it was one or two years ago. While there certainly are specific applications you can find on the iphone only, these also exist for Android. If you really want numbers, apple said 700 000 at the latest presentation, and android seems to have had 600 000 a few months ago.

by jpxxx 14y ago

te_chris 14y ago

Most robust "cloud"? Really? You know their main competitor is google right? The company that has been responsible for millions of people embracing the cloud before apple even cared it existed?

batgaijin 14y ago
Their main competitor is carrier phones that don't handle OS updates in a timely manner/at all. I have an android phone with cyanogen, but if someone complained about android I'd be totally understanding. The stock stuff is terrible.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  Uh, what's wrong with stock Android? The issue is with carrier/OEM modifications.
  - batgaijin 14y ago
    Sorry, that's what I meant.
jpxxx 14y ago
Yes, really. I argue that iCloud is a more robust and coherent offering at this point. It goes toe-to-toe with Android Backup when it comes to backing up relevant user-state (like SMS history, a very valuable datatype), offers desirable features like find-a-phone and remote wipe, offers unsexy but fundamental functionality like Notes round-tripping, and offers ad-free IMAP mailboxes that don't explode on contact with desktop clients. iCloud still doesn't offer arbitrary file storage like Google Drive and its photo story is inadequate and confusing. But it is competitive on the whole, and Apple found some dogwhistle to blow that made "iCloud" a real thing for extremely tech-uninvolved people. (I'm not sure if this was anything they actually did on their part or if it was just coincident with the "cloud" buzzword coming to mean "I, the user, won't lose my stuff if my phone/laptop breaks") Also, Android backup is not a freebie: the manufacturer needs to be playing by OHA rules and staying in Google's good graces so that they can get access to all those Google-backed goodies. And then of course there's carrier-cloud and the vaporous S-Cloud and Asus cloud and all the third-party services and and.... and... Apple's put it together under one brand name and an ID you already have.
- cageface 14y ago
  I argue that iCloud is a more robust and coherent offering at this point. Robust is highly debatable, but the big problem with iCloud is that it's restricted to Apple devices only and is really only a benefit if you live entirely in the Apple ecosystem. The last few iOS apps I've written for clients haven't used it because we need to support Android and/or non-Mac desktop users as well.
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    Quite true. But then in a world of Asus Cloud and S-cloud you're still in the same boat. Backup, sync, and asst. services are fragmenting.
    - cageface 14y ago
      Sure but the point is that any truly competitive cloud service has to be cross platform.

mtgx 14y ago

Best voice assistant service? You must've missed all the comparisons with Google's Voice Search, which shows significantly better results, and is faster, too.

batista 14y ago
No, I saw those comparison videos. Google's results were far worse. And it's not about "voice search", it's about "voice assistant".
shawndumas 14y ago
what happens, in jellybean, if you schedule an appointment via voice for an already taken time slot?

busyant 14y ago

All of what you mention may be true (I don't really know if it is), but spending 8 days in line for a phone (even a great one) seems out of proportion even when taking into consideration all of the superlatives you mention. I think that's where "sheeple" gets some traction.

jpxxx 14y ago
This line is composed of attention seekers taking advantage of a colossal and global attention machine in action.

nwienert 14y ago

A large portion of your points don't matter to a majority of consumers: sales channel, distribution, manufacturing channel, carrier support, re-up rates, retention rates (difference?), ARPU, dev support, ASP, margin, packaging, perceived status. Some are duplicates (service/support, re-up/retention, deepest/widest content, status/brand). Another portion are purely opinion... cloud, dev support, "pack ins" (?), voice assistant (google now often performce better), performance (its a wash), UX (many people prefer customizable UX). Some are even negative to certain people such as their brand, ARPU (high margins), and their cloud (not supporting alternatives). And of course that doesn't count the many, many categories they do poorly in that are important to people. Off the top of my head are customizability, open technologies, keyboard (software), screen size, choice in hardware features and software features (default browsers, default apps, etc), extensibility, tech standards/ports, 3rd part extensibility, navigation (seems like IO6 maps are getting bad reviews thus far), and richer apps that can integrate beyond the strict sandbox, etc. Finally, their marketing is one of their strongest traits and so of course marketing is a huge driver of sales. Not that I agree with calling anyone "sheeple", so not really sure what your point was.

jpxxx 14y ago
Re-up is staying on the same phone. Retention is staying on the same carrier. Performance is not a wash, even comparing flagship phones. My greater point is that without excelling in all of those things I mentioned, people wouldn't be lining up. An iPhone launch would have all the public excitement of a crate of HTC Wonkadoodles being dumped out on the floor of some Verizon kiosk. Nativist zealotry and jealousy is blinding a lot of otherwise thoughtful people to how well Apple is executing and just preposterously powerful they're becoming. I'm not cheering it, I'm just pointing it out. Their products are competitive, they are desirable, and their current profit share and market share strongly argues that they're choosing the right areas to optimize.
- nwienert 14y ago
  I'd like to see some real-world metrics on performance. Apps or features that open/run significant more quickly in a side-by-side. From what I read here (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4530188 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4530188 see first two comments and http://browser.primatelabs.com/android-benchmarks http://browser.primatelabs.com/android-benchmarks) it seems like they are pretty identical. Software-wise perhaps the buttery scrolling is still a very slight advantage, but not to be a selling point anymore. But I do agree, as far as selling phones they win on key areas that other companies can't touch, mostly... brand, store experience, customer service in store, packaging, hardware design and tight software integration. Still doesn't rationalize waiting for 8 days or even 2 days for a phone!

cageface 14y ago

According to the article the people in line are just trying to grab some free publicity for themselves. Apple's doing a lot of things right, to be sure, but their phone market share is still sliding, the newer flagship Android phones are extremely competitive, and the gap in the app market has narrowed considerably in the last year. Perhaps worst of all, they seem to be cruising on the momentum of earlier successes, with their rigid UI essentially unchanged since 2007 except a continued cynical slide into gratuitous skeuomorphism. They need a post-Jobs new home run product in the next 2-3 years. Personally I'm pretty happy with the way the mobile market is shaping up right now because, in the long run, a monoculture with one dominant player is boring.

jpxxx 14y ago
I completely agree with everything you said. This is a Samsun and Apple game, with Samsung occupying every niche and market Apple won't take. There's no third platform evolving. And yeah, if Apple goes sub-$200, it's going to have to be with a wizzy new design. The flagship model is maturing.
- cageface 14y ago
  I don't like Microsoft as a company but I would like to see WP8 become a real alternative. They're taking some bold chances with their UI and a three horse race would be more interesting.

digeridoo 14y ago

Apple is in the same branch as sports clubs and religious institutions. They have wildly different products, but a similar way of working: speaking to people's basic desire to be part of something greater than them. With the same vigour that religious devotees promote their book, and sports fans promote their football club, Apple customers promote their phone. That's fine, it's human. In many cases there is some truth to it. I'm guilty of at least one of these 3. It's also perfectly normal that you view your behaviour in this regard as being rational, while it actually isn't.

keeperofdakeys 14y ago

Besides more then a few of these being more opinion then fact, I don't think the wider application selection is valid like it was one or two years ago. While there certainly are specific applications you can find on the iphone only, these also exist for Android. If you really want numbers, apple said 700 000 at the latest presentation, and android seems to have had 600 000 a few months ago.