4 ms·

Since I was a little kid I was always skeptical of slathering something all over my body just to go outside. Just thought…how did people survive before this stu

Since I was a little kid I was always skeptical of slathering something all over my body just to go outside. Just thought…how did people survive before this stuff if we really need it so bad.

adrianN 1y ago
If you ask „how did people survive“ the answer is more often than not: „with great difficulty“. Take for example simple hygiene measures like using soap or brushing your teeth or disinfecting wounds.
- datadrivenangel 1y ago
  Teeth brushing is not as important if you're not eating modern food. Processed sugars really are terrible (but delicious)
  - adrianN 1y ago
    If by modern you mean anything since agriculture was invented, then perhaps.
- laserlight 1y ago
  Or, the answer is simply “they didn't survive”, which is the case for countless babies who died because an activity as simple as hand-washing wasn't known to be a matter of life and death.
TinkersW 1y ago
Often living in a different climate zone, US is well south of Europe.
- lstodd 1y ago
  56th latitude person can be literally baked by northern mediterannean (~42 lat) March sun in a couple of days. But a couple months later.. no problems climbing mountains all day. We are very adaptable.
  - TinkersW 1y ago
    You can choose to bake, and your skin will harden up and deal with it, but it will also cause long term leathery skin, which many find unattractive, and increased skin cancer risk. Tho I agree with economist article, sun exposure is very good for you, just not high UV exposure.
    - lstodd 1y ago
      I'd say more like comments here: it's not high UV, it's high delta between actual UV flux and what one's skin was expecting. So pace it, like you would do when first starting lifting weights. The final tolerance is suprisingly high.
      - bschwarz 1y ago
        SPF 4: https://www.health.harvard.edu/skin-and-hair/are-there-benefits-to-a-base-tan https://www.health.harvard.edu/skin-and-hair/are-there-benef...
throwaway74628 1y ago
Slathering oneself in mud if you need to endure harsh sun exposure is the most common answer I’ve seen to this question. Otherwise, I agree with your comment, the “best practice” of avoiding sun exposure is as unintuitive as the grain-heavy food pyramid.
- jerlam 1y ago
  That food pyramid hasn't been recommended in 20 years.
  - throwaway74628 1y ago
    That’s my point.
AppleBananaPie 1y ago
They survived but for a much shorter time?
pitpatagain 1y ago
People didn't used to expose themselves to as much direct sun and covered themselves with a lot more clothes. Traditional clothing in arid sunny areas typically covers everything, look at people in the middle east today. I live in a very sunny desert area and it's kind of funny when people assume people from here would be "more tanned". We stay in the shade, the sun will kill you! Anyone working outside is wearing wide brimmed hats and typically has all of their skin covered with clothing even in the heat, people typically have their faces covered with cloth as well. Spending time outside with minimal clothing in direct midday sun is a modern weird behavior.
- seemaze 1y ago
  Absolutely agree. I'm find myself aghast when I travel to different environments and observe people laying in direct sun almost naked. Not that I think they shouldn't, it's just such a stark contrast to my norm. I'll end up with a painful sunburn if I venture outside uncovered for more than 10 minutes at home.
- whatevertrevor 1y ago
  Yup, I grew up in a hot subtropical climate and the best counter to the summer was to stay indoors, hydrate. If you have to be outdoors, stay in the shade, if you have to be exposed to the sun, cover yourself. All of the benefits you get from being in direct sunlight can be gained with just being outdoors in shaded areas, maybe for a slightly longer time. The way western culture glorifies direct exposure to the sun is always hilarious to me, everyone lining up to burn their skin for hours on end to "catch up" on sunlight exposure. Instead of just playing an outdoor sport under some trees or being outdoors in the morning/evening when sunlight is a lot less potent and weather is a lot more pleasant.
- xenospn 1y ago
  People in greece/israel/italy/etc don't cover themselves much and they have very long lives.
seemaze 1y ago
Global migration outpaced evolutionary adaption a long time ago. Many peoples have adapted to local UV conditions, but can now jump on an airplane and are instantly in a completely different environment. Additionally, if you've ever seen a portrait of a human in the UV spectrum, you'll notice how shiny they look. I'm sure modern people have much less protective oils in their skin as a result of increased bathing required by societal and sanitation norms of modern urbanized habitation.
danielmarkbruce 1y ago
Many didn't. On top of that, evolution optimizes for reproduction, not long life. With few exceptions, cancer is a disease of the post child rearing aged folks.
Earw0rm 1y ago
White people - depending on your definition, I mean pale-skinned Northern Europeans - are adapted to live north of about 45 degrees. Obviously they live lots of other places now, but evolution is slow to catch up. If you drive through France for a day, you can literally see the change from north to south, "could be Dutch" in the far north to "could be Spanish" in the south. Of course lots of people move around but I'm talking about averages.
anthomtb 1y ago
> skeptical of slathering something all over my body just to go outside Missing nuance: Outside for how long? And how strong is the sun? Even with my pasty Northern European complexion, I'm skipping the sunscreen for a 20 minute walk to lunch in November. But for a 10 hour hike above treeline in July? I'll be re-applying every two hours.
aidenn0 1y ago
I live at a much lower latitude (about the same as Morocco) than my Celtic ancestors did.
astura 1y ago
Long sleeves and wide brim hats.
heavyset_go 1y ago
The ozone layer wasn't as weak as it is now. We receive more radiation from the sun at the surface than we did before CFCs. In the past, people, in general, remained in the general vicinity of where they were born. Different skin types adapted to different amounts of sunlight. We also didn't have the knowledge to link death and disease with their actual causes. That said, in the past, people used variety of materials for sunscreen without the knowledge that "too much radiation bad". Mud/clay/etc seems to be something multiple cultures over time used. In cultures where working in the sun is common, wearing long clothes that blocks the sun is also a thing, and works like sunscreen. Given that last point, I think baking in the sun while nearly naked to the point of developing disease is a relatively recent cultural thing, but that's just a guess.

Since I was a little kid I was always skeptical of slathering something all over my body just to go outside. Just thought…how did people survive before this stuff if we really need it so bad.

adrianN 1y ago

If you ask „how did people survive“ the answer is more often than not: „with great difficulty“. Take for example simple hygiene measures like using soap or brushing your teeth or disinfecting wounds.

datadrivenangel 1y ago
Teeth brushing is not as important if you're not eating modern food. Processed sugars really are terrible (but delicious)
- adrianN 1y ago
  If by modern you mean anything since agriculture was invented, then perhaps.
laserlight 1y ago
Or, the answer is simply “they didn't survive”, which is the case for countless babies who died because an activity as simple as hand-washing wasn't known to be a matter of life and death.

TinkersW 1y ago

Often living in a different climate zone, US is well south of Europe.

lstodd 1y ago
56th latitude person can be literally baked by northern mediterannean (~42 lat) March sun in a couple of days. But a couple months later.. no problems climbing mountains all day. We are very adaptable.
- TinkersW 1y ago
  You can choose to bake, and your skin will harden up and deal with it, but it will also cause long term leathery skin, which many find unattractive, and increased skin cancer risk. Tho I agree with economist article, sun exposure is very good for you, just not high UV exposure.
  - lstodd 1y ago
    I'd say more like comments here: it's not high UV, it's high delta between actual UV flux and what one's skin was expecting. So pace it, like you would do when first starting lifting weights. The final tolerance is suprisingly high.
    - bschwarz 1y ago
      SPF 4: https://www.health.harvard.edu/skin-and-hair/are-there-benefits-to-a-base-tan https://www.health.harvard.edu/skin-and-hair/are-there-benef...

throwaway74628 1y ago

Slathering oneself in mud if you need to endure harsh sun exposure is the most common answer I’ve seen to this question. Otherwise, I agree with your comment, the “best practice” of avoiding sun exposure is as unintuitive as the grain-heavy food pyramid.

jerlam 1y ago
That food pyramid hasn't been recommended in 20 years.
- throwaway74628 1y ago
  That’s my point.

AppleBananaPie 1y ago

They survived but for a much shorter time?

pitpatagain 1y ago

People didn't used to expose themselves to as much direct sun and covered themselves with a lot more clothes. Traditional clothing in arid sunny areas typically covers everything, look at people in the middle east today. I live in a very sunny desert area and it's kind of funny when people assume people from here would be "more tanned". We stay in the shade, the sun will kill you! Anyone working outside is wearing wide brimmed hats and typically has all of their skin covered with clothing even in the heat, people typically have their faces covered with cloth as well. Spending time outside with minimal clothing in direct midday sun is a modern weird behavior.

seemaze 1y ago
Absolutely agree. I'm find myself aghast when I travel to different environments and observe people laying in direct sun almost naked. Not that I think they shouldn't, it's just such a stark contrast to my norm. I'll end up with a painful sunburn if I venture outside uncovered for more than 10 minutes at home.
whatevertrevor 1y ago
Yup, I grew up in a hot subtropical climate and the best counter to the summer was to stay indoors, hydrate. If you have to be outdoors, stay in the shade, if you have to be exposed to the sun, cover yourself. All of the benefits you get from being in direct sunlight can be gained with just being outdoors in shaded areas, maybe for a slightly longer time. The way western culture glorifies direct exposure to the sun is always hilarious to me, everyone lining up to burn their skin for hours on end to "catch up" on sunlight exposure. Instead of just playing an outdoor sport under some trees or being outdoors in the morning/evening when sunlight is a lot less potent and weather is a lot more pleasant.
xenospn 1y ago
People in greece/israel/italy/etc don't cover themselves much and they have very long lives.

seemaze 1y ago

Global migration outpaced evolutionary adaption a long time ago. Many peoples have adapted to local UV conditions, but can now jump on an airplane and are instantly in a completely different environment. Additionally, if you've ever seen a portrait of a human in the UV spectrum, you'll notice how shiny they look. I'm sure modern people have much less protective oils in their skin as a result of increased bathing required by societal and sanitation norms of modern urbanized habitation.

danielmarkbruce 1y ago

Many didn't. On top of that, evolution optimizes for reproduction, not long life. With few exceptions, cancer is a disease of the post child rearing aged folks.

Earw0rm 1y ago

White people - depending on your definition, I mean pale-skinned Northern Europeans - are adapted to live north of about 45 degrees. Obviously they live lots of other places now, but evolution is slow to catch up. If you drive through France for a day, you can literally see the change from north to south, "could be Dutch" in the far north to "could be Spanish" in the south. Of course lots of people move around but I'm talking about averages.

anthomtb 1y ago

> skeptical of slathering something all over my body just to go outside Missing nuance: Outside for how long? And how strong is the sun? Even with my pasty Northern European complexion, I'm skipping the sunscreen for a 20 minute walk to lunch in November. But for a 10 hour hike above treeline in July? I'll be re-applying every two hours.

aidenn0 1y ago

I live at a much lower latitude (about the same as Morocco) than my Celtic ancestors did.

astura 1y ago

Long sleeves and wide brim hats.

heavyset_go 1y ago

The ozone layer wasn't as weak as it is now. We receive more radiation from the sun at the surface than we did before CFCs. In the past, people, in general, remained in the general vicinity of where they were born. Different skin types adapted to different amounts of sunlight. We also didn't have the knowledge to link death and disease with their actual causes. That said, in the past, people used variety of materials for sunscreen without the knowledge that "too much radiation bad". Mud/clay/etc seems to be something multiple cultures over time used. In cultures where working in the sun is common, wearing long clothes that blocks the sun is also a thing, and works like sunscreen. Given that last point, I think baking in the sun while nearly naked to the point of developing disease is a relatively recent cultural thing, but that's just a guess.