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This is the correct analysis - there's a reason you see this stuff cheap or free. The homelab group on Reddit is full of people who don't understand any of thi

This is the correct analysis - there's a reason you see this stuff cheap or free. The homelab group on Reddit is full of people who don't understand any of this - they have full racks in their house that could be replaced with one high-end desktop.

kllrnohj 1y ago
> The homelab group on Reddit is full of people who don't understand any of this - they have full racks in their house that could be replaced with one high-end desktop. A lot of that group is making use of the IO capabilities of these systems to run lots of PCI-E devices & hard drives. There's not exactly a cost-effective modern equivalent for that. If there were cost-effective ways to do something like take a PCI-E 5.0 x2 and turn it into a PCI-E 3.0 x8 that'd be incredible, but there isn't really. So raw PCI-E lane count is significant if you want cheap networking gear or HBAs or whatever, and raw PCI-E lane count is $$$$ if you're buying new. Also these old systems mean cheap RAM in large, large capacities. Like 128GB RAM to make ZFS or VMs purr is much cheaper to do on these used systems than anything modern.
- mattbillenstein 1y ago
  Perhaps, but I don't really get the dozens of TB of storage in the home use case a lot of the time either. Like if you have a large media library, you need to push maybe 10MB/s, you don't need 128GB of RAM to do that... It's mostly just hardware porn - perhaps there are a few legit use cases for the old hardware, but they are exceedingly rare in my estimate.
  - kllrnohj 1y ago
    > Like if you have a large media library, you need to push maybe 10MB/s, For just streaming a 4k bluray you need more than 10MB/s, Ultra HD bluray tops out at 144 Mbit/s. Not to mention if that system is being hit by something else at the same time (backup jobs, etc...). Is the 128GB of RAM just hardware porn? Eh, maybe, probably. But if you want 8+ bays for a decent sized NAS then you're already quickly into price points at which point these used servers are significantly cheaper, and 128GB of RAM adds very little to the cost so why not.
    - Kubuxu 1y ago
      For 8+ bays you just need a SAS HBA card and one free PCI-E slot. Not to mention that many motherboards will have 6+ SATA ports already. If anything, 2nd hand AMD gaming rigs make more sense than old servers. I say that as someone with always off r720xd at home due to noise and heat. It was fun when I bought it during winter years ago, until summer came.
      - kllrnohj 1y ago
        > For 8+ bays you just need a SAS HBA card and one free PCI-E slot. Not to mention that many motherboards will have 6+ SATA ports already. And what case are you putting them into? What if you want it rack mounted? What about >1gig networking? What if I want a GPU in there to do whisper for home assistant? Used gaming rigs are great. But used servers also still have loads of value, too. Compute just isn't one of them.
        ssl-3 1y ago
        > And what case are you putting them into? Maybe one of the Fractal Designs cases with a bunch of drive bays? > What if you want it rack mounted? Companies like Rosewill sell ATX cases that can scratch that itch. > What about >1gig networking? What about PCI Express card? Regular ATX computers are expandable. > What if I want a GPU in there to do whisper for home assistant? I mean... We started with a gaming rig, right? Isn't a GPU already implicit?
        kllrnohj 1y ago
        > Companies like Rosewill sell ATX cases that can scratch that itch. Have you looked at what they cost? Those cases alone cost as much as a used server. Which comes with a case. > What about PCI Express card? Regular ATX computers are expandable. As mentioned higher up, they run out of lane count in a hurry. Especially when you're using things like used Connect-X cards
        ssl-3 1y ago
zer00eyz 1y ago
Most of the workloads that people with homelabs run, could be run on a 5 year old i5. A lot of business are paying obscene money to cloud providers when they could have a pair of racks and the staff to support it. Unless you're paying attention to the bleeding edge of the server market, to its costs (better yet features and affordability) this sort of mistake is easy to make. The article is by someone who does this sort of thing for fun, and views/attention, and im glad for it... it's fun to watch. But it's sad when this same sort of misunderstanding happens in professional settings, and it happens a lot.
kbenson 1y ago
I have a couple units of free colocation cabinet space space and free bandwidth and power to go with it waiting to be used, so inefficient hardware is less of an issue for me. I've just been fairly lazy in sourcing it myself.

kllrnohj 1y ago

> The homelab group on Reddit is full of people who don't understand any of this - they have full racks in their house that could be replaced with one high-end desktop. A lot of that group is making use of the IO capabilities of these systems to run lots of PCI-E devices & hard drives. There's not exactly a cost-effective modern equivalent for that. If there were cost-effective ways to do something like take a PCI-E 5.0 x2 and turn it into a PCI-E 3.0 x8 that'd be incredible, but there isn't really. So raw PCI-E lane count is significant if you want cheap networking gear or HBAs or whatever, and raw PCI-E lane count is $$$$ if you're buying new. Also these old systems mean cheap RAM in large, large capacities. Like 128GB RAM to make ZFS or VMs purr is much cheaper to do on these used systems than anything modern.

mattbillenstein 1y ago
Perhaps, but I don't really get the dozens of TB of storage in the home use case a lot of the time either. Like if you have a large media library, you need to push maybe 10MB/s, you don't need 128GB of RAM to do that... It's mostly just hardware porn - perhaps there are a few legit use cases for the old hardware, but they are exceedingly rare in my estimate.
- kllrnohj 1y ago
  > Like if you have a large media library, you need to push maybe 10MB/s, For just streaming a 4k bluray you need more than 10MB/s, Ultra HD bluray tops out at 144 Mbit/s. Not to mention if that system is being hit by something else at the same time (backup jobs, etc...). Is the 128GB of RAM just hardware porn? Eh, maybe, probably. But if you want 8+ bays for a decent sized NAS then you're already quickly into price points at which point these used servers are significantly cheaper, and 128GB of RAM adds very little to the cost so why not.
  - Kubuxu 1y ago
    For 8+ bays you just need a SAS HBA card and one free PCI-E slot. Not to mention that many motherboards will have 6+ SATA ports already. If anything, 2nd hand AMD gaming rigs make more sense than old servers. I say that as someone with always off r720xd at home due to noise and heat. It was fun when I bought it during winter years ago, until summer came.
    - kllrnohj 1y ago
      > For 8+ bays you just need a SAS HBA card and one free PCI-E slot. Not to mention that many motherboards will have 6+ SATA ports already. And what case are you putting them into? What if you want it rack mounted? What about >1gig networking? What if I want a GPU in there to do whisper for home assistant? Used gaming rigs are great. But used servers also still have loads of value, too. Compute just isn't one of them.
      - ssl-3 1y ago
        > And what case are you putting them into? Maybe one of the Fractal Designs cases with a bunch of drive bays? > What if you want it rack mounted? Companies like Rosewill sell ATX cases that can scratch that itch. > What about >1gig networking? What about PCI Express card? Regular ATX computers are expandable. > What if I want a GPU in there to do whisper for home assistant? I mean... We started with a gaming rig, right? Isn't a GPU already implicit?
        kllrnohj 1y ago
        > Companies like Rosewill sell ATX cases that can scratch that itch. Have you looked at what they cost? Those cases alone cost as much as a used server. Which comes with a case. > What about PCI Express card? Regular ATX computers are expandable. As mentioned higher up, they run out of lane count in a hurry. Especially when you're using things like used Connect-X cards
        ssl-3 1y ago

zer00eyz 1y ago

Most of the workloads that people with homelabs run, could be run on a 5 year old i5. A lot of business are paying obscene money to cloud providers when they could have a pair of racks and the staff to support it. Unless you're paying attention to the bleeding edge of the server market, to its costs (better yet features and affordability) this sort of mistake is easy to make. The article is by someone who does this sort of thing for fun, and views/attention, and im glad for it... it's fun to watch. But it's sad when this same sort of misunderstanding happens in professional settings, and it happens a lot.

kbenson 1y ago

I have a couple units of free colocation cabinet space space and free bandwidth and power to go with it waiting to be used, so inefficient hardware is less of an issue for me. I've just been fairly lazy in sourcing it myself.