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Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27996321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27996321 It's the party of rules for thee, not for me.

sudditer 1y ago
[flagged]
lokar 1y ago
It turns out all of the "institutions", customs and traditions, not technically enforced by law, had an important effect on restraining corruption. Turns out they were only really enforced by the public, but with the general (intentional, IMO) erosion in faith in the government and institutions, the public no longer cares.
- estearum 1y ago
  Well, many of these actions are illegal. But law is not self-enforcing. If POTUS is the origin of the corruption and his party in Congress doesn't impeach or otherwise constrain, then he's allowed to do whatever he wants.
  - lokar 1y ago
    It seems like there are a lot of things that are either illegal, or somehow forbidden, where the only enforcement allowed is impeachment and removal. Given how partisanship has turned out in the US, this is a major flaw in the constitution IMO (along with it being to hard to amend).
  - overfeed 1y ago
    > Well, many of these actions are illegal. SCOTUS ruled that official actions of POTUS can't be illegal, and can't even be investigated.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
      This "rounds to true" at the middle school level, but isn't actually true at all at the level of a civically-minded adult. Downvoting because I don't think it meets the bar at HN.
    - kelnos 1y ago
      You better believe that if a Democrat were in the White House doing similar things, the conservative wing of SCOTUS would have voted the other way. I no longer consider SCOTUS rulings as good measures of what the law actually is. Instead I look to the lower court decisions that brought us there. If they agree with SCOTUS, or there's no consensus, then sure, ok. But if the lower court rulings are largely the opposite of the final SCOTUS rulings -- especially if the lower court judges include folks appointed by Trump or another conservative president -- I think it's fair to assume that SCOTUS's decision is partisan, ideological bullshit that bears little resemblance to actual law in the US. It pains me to say or even think this, because in the past I've had a lot of respect for our Supreme Court, but that respect is completely gone at this point.
      - estearum 1y ago
        +1 and IMO this is substantiated even if you ignore actual policy/political differences. This SCOTUS has used the shadow docket to overturn (without actually ruling on) lower court decisions extremely frequently. These “decisions” (really delays in the administration’s favor) are increasingly offered without rationale and even without the majority Justices signing their names to the order. IMO they know the administration is way afoul of the law (which is why so many lower courts are finding such in 50-150 page considerations) but they don’t want to have to decide on that. So instead they’re relying on the shadow docket and not providing any rationale or signatures to try to escape the shame they know history will bring upon them.
twright 1y ago
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to whit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
- CamperBob2 1y ago
  I'm always annoyed by that saying. It's basically an indictment of government power (and power in general), not just "conservatism." It could apply as well to Stalin and Mao as to Trump and the Bushes.
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because this is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because this is according to my principles. - Frank Herbert
  - rtkwe 1y ago
    Just take it for what it is as a commentary on US politics instead of trying to expand it beyond it's intended reach.
    - CamperBob2 1y ago
      What we're learning these days is that there is nothing special or interesting about US politics. We're all Turks now, having freely elected our Erdogan.
      - rtkwe 1y ago
        It is however still a specific statement about one portion of the US political landscape. Lots of correct statement look wrong when you distort their intended scope.
      - BJones12 1y ago
        The trouble with politics now is that it has become a religion. You can't elect boring people anymore, because doing so would remove the ability for adherents to engage in religious fervor. Before politics can be boring and fair, adherence to actual religion must be rebuilt to satisfy the people's need for religion, so that politics doesn't have to.
throw0101a 1y ago
> It's the party of rules for thee, not for me. Hypocrisy is a virtue: > It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. > It’s not an inconsistency. It’s very consistent to the only true fascist value, which is domination. > It’s very important to understand, fascists don’t just see hypocrisy as a necessary evil or an unintended side-effect. > It’s the purpose. The ability to enjoy yourself the thing you’re able to deny others, because you dominate, is the whole point. > For fascists, hypocrisy is a great virtue — the greatest. * https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 * Via: https://kottke.org/25/03/for-fascists-hypocrisy-is-a-virtue https://kottke.org/25/03/for-fascists-hypocrisy-is-a-virtue

sudditer 1y ago

[flagged]

lokar 1y ago

It turns out all of the "institutions", customs and traditions, not technically enforced by law, had an important effect on restraining corruption. Turns out they were only really enforced by the public, but with the general (intentional, IMO) erosion in faith in the government and institutions, the public no longer cares.

estearum 1y ago
Well, many of these actions are illegal. But law is not self-enforcing. If POTUS is the origin of the corruption and his party in Congress doesn't impeach or otherwise constrain, then he's allowed to do whatever he wants.
- lokar 1y ago
  It seems like there are a lot of things that are either illegal, or somehow forbidden, where the only enforcement allowed is impeachment and removal. Given how partisanship has turned out in the US, this is a major flaw in the constitution IMO (along with it being to hard to amend).
- overfeed 1y ago
  > Well, many of these actions are illegal. SCOTUS ruled that official actions of POTUS can't be illegal, and can't even be investigated.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    This "rounds to true" at the middle school level, but isn't actually true at all at the level of a civically-minded adult. Downvoting because I don't think it meets the bar at HN.
  - kelnos 1y ago
    You better believe that if a Democrat were in the White House doing similar things, the conservative wing of SCOTUS would have voted the other way. I no longer consider SCOTUS rulings as good measures of what the law actually is. Instead I look to the lower court decisions that brought us there. If they agree with SCOTUS, or there's no consensus, then sure, ok. But if the lower court rulings are largely the opposite of the final SCOTUS rulings -- especially if the lower court judges include folks appointed by Trump or another conservative president -- I think it's fair to assume that SCOTUS's decision is partisan, ideological bullshit that bears little resemblance to actual law in the US. It pains me to say or even think this, because in the past I've had a lot of respect for our Supreme Court, but that respect is completely gone at this point.
    - estearum 1y ago
      +1 and IMO this is substantiated even if you ignore actual policy/political differences. This SCOTUS has used the shadow docket to overturn (without actually ruling on) lower court decisions extremely frequently. These “decisions” (really delays in the administration’s favor) are increasingly offered without rationale and even without the majority Justices signing their names to the order. IMO they know the administration is way afoul of the law (which is why so many lower courts are finding such in 50-150 page considerations) but they don’t want to have to decide on that. So instead they’re relying on the shadow docket and not providing any rationale or signatures to try to escape the shame they know history will bring upon them.

twright 1y ago

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to whit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

CamperBob2 1y ago
I'm always annoyed by that saying. It's basically an indictment of government power (and power in general), not just "conservatism." It could apply as well to Stalin and Mao as to Trump and the Bushes.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because this is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because this is according to my principles. - Frank Herbert
- rtkwe 1y ago
  Just take it for what it is as a commentary on US politics instead of trying to expand it beyond it's intended reach.
  - CamperBob2 1y ago
    What we're learning these days is that there is nothing special or interesting about US politics. We're all Turks now, having freely elected our Erdogan.
    - rtkwe 1y ago
      It is however still a specific statement about one portion of the US political landscape. Lots of correct statement look wrong when you distort their intended scope.
    - BJones12 1y ago
      The trouble with politics now is that it has become a religion. You can't elect boring people anymore, because doing so would remove the ability for adherents to engage in religious fervor. Before politics can be boring and fair, adherence to actual religion must be rebuilt to satisfy the people's need for religion, so that politics doesn't have to.

throw0101a 1y ago

> It's the party of rules for thee, not for me. Hypocrisy is a virtue: > It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. > It’s not an inconsistency. It’s very consistent to the only true fascist value, which is domination. > It’s very important to understand, fascists don’t just see hypocrisy as a necessary evil or an unintended side-effect. > It’s the purpose. The ability to enjoy yourself the thing you’re able to deny others, because you dominate, is the whole point. > For fascists, hypocrisy is a great virtue — the greatest. * https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 * Via: https://kottke.org/25/03/for-fascists-hypocrisy-is-a-virtue https://kottke.org/25/03/for-fascists-hypocrisy-is-a-virtue