8 ms·

I wonder what it says about me or my life that my first thought was that it sounded absolutely wonderful. I had a good stretch of time between jobs (fortunately

by halper 1y ago

I wonder what it says about me or my life that my first thought was that it sounded absolutely wonderful. I had a good stretch of time between jobs (fortunately voluntarily) a while back and ever since I have had a completely different outlook on life that is, sadly, not quite compatible with modern life. During my time unemployed my pace of life was more like it is when you are on a camping/hiking trip with a group of scouts: a lot of the time spent on routine things like fetching water, lighting fires and prepping food. I would spend hours each day on prepping the dinner from scratch (beginning with walking to fetch the relevant supplies). Now when I am back to work, I have to choose if I want to spend time with my family or going with the gym, because there is not time to do both. I do not want to be homeless or get rid of my family, but it sure would be amazing to "be able to" (of course I have a choice: I can just resign) just spend time spending time.

dominicq 1y ago
Yeah. The options for lots of leisure are either: a) be homeless, or b) be rich. Those of us inbetween always have to choose and make compromises. In my life, this has forced me to quit on a bunch of things I would have continued otherwise, and to lean down things like my workouts and so on. This isn't necessarily bad, I like that I can now do 80% with 20% of time/effort, but still, would be nice to have more slack.
- borski 1y ago
  There is a third option, which is to move to a place with a much lower cost of living. This isn’t always possible, due to family or job, but it’s not exactly uncommon either. Remote work, in particular, has helped with this. Work fewer hours, for less money, but with fewer needs. Doable, but it’s about what you prioritize and care about.
  - apt-apt-apt-apt 1y ago
    > Remote work, in particular, has helped with this. Work fewer hours, for less money Honestly, this sounds like an armchair fantasy. It sounds great on paper– tech jobs pay $150K, so just find a remote job and work half-time. Boom, less taxes and you still have $5K/mo plus tons of time! IME though, 99% of jobs want to own you full-time. There are almost no roles where you can be part-time. The other alternative, independent contractor or Upwork, is also very difficult to start, even if you have good experience and skills.
    - OJFord 1y ago
      Almost nothing is advertised as part time, but way more than 1% would be happily accomodating if you asked to reduce to x days/week, I think. Especially for people coming to that decision while in the job, vs. negotiating for it in an offer.
    - borski 1y ago
      I didn’t say you could do it working for Amazon. There are plenty of law firms, medical offices, etc., that need software and IT help and are happy to have it part-time or provide flexibility. Sure, it won’t be FAANG, but that wasn’t what we were talking about here.
      - apt-apt-apt-apt 1y ago
        What kind of software development would law/medical/other offices need on a flexible basis? I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where someone could realistically be a dev part-time.
        borski 1y ago
        There is always a ton of work; off-the-shelf tools are rarely off the shelf and require set up, maintenance, etc. A lot of writing glue code to build dashboards and things. Nowadays, a lot of AI work to improve attorney and paralegal efficiency, etc. Law firms have software devs and/or IT on staff, or they contract it out. Contracting rather than a W2 is also an option. It’s not “fun.” But it pays well and is often doable remotely / part-time.
- tasuki 1y ago
  c) The (lean) FIRE (financial independence / early retirement) way. If you do the math and can do without some of the pricier luxuries of "modern life", you really don't need much money at all.
- theamk 1y ago
  Or work as contractor / part-time. I've had two experiences with people like that: - At one place I've worked at (big corp), the QA department was full of contractors. One of the contractors was only working 9 months per year - they spent all summers in Australia. Everyone knew about that and accepted this. The contractor was great, and no one had problems with that (I am sure not having to pay them anything while they were away helped :) ) - At other place, a small startup, we had a team member who was in a band. He'd work for us for a few months, help us to finish a project and make sure customer is happy.. and then disappear for a few more months to tour the US. Again, he was a great programmer, and we always welcomed him back. I am sure that not every place is like this (for example my current workplace is pretty bureaucratic and would not be happy with this arrangement), but things like this definitely exist.
iberator 1y ago
> I wonder what it says about me or my life that my first thought was that it sounded absolutely wonderful. >I do not want to be homeless or get rid of my family, but it sure would be amazing to "be able to" (of course I have a choice: I can just resign) just spend time spending time. Trust me mate. Being homeless or a homeless traveler is HARD. I am homeless for 3 months now and it's absolutely devastating for my soul and morale. Having no "safe harbour" takes away all enjoyment from "freedom". I was an avid hiker as well in the past :)
- theteapot 1y ago
  > .. it's absolutely devastating for my soul and morale. Why? Stay strong my friend.
  - borski 1y ago
    For one thing, because everyone around you looks at you like you are dirty and the scum of the earth, on average. And that’s before you get to the fact that each night you need to find a place to sleep and nobody wants it to be near them. It’s immensely depressing, and hard to stay resilient.
    - theteapot 1y ago
      Yeah I hear you. It would be de-stigmatizing if more people with mean were voluntarily "homeless" like the Leatherman. But people just wanna watch Netflix I guess.
- halper 1y ago
  I can relate to that, having not always been in such fortunate circumstances as I am now. I hope that your situation improves!
  - iberator 1y ago
    thank you
- 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
uncircle 1y ago
> I wonder what it says about me or my life that my first thought was that it sounded absolutely wonderful. What sounded wonderful to me was this sentence: 'One store kept a record of an order: "one loaf of bread, a can of sardines, one-pound of fancy crackers, a pie, two quarts of coffee, one gill of brandy and a bottle of beer"' This was a time when food brands weren't really a thing, the store probably had one type of bread, one type of (local) canned sardines, one type of crackers, etc. Each shop had a different variation and "menu", so to speak, all completely unique to each other. These days there is no difference between grocery stores, they all sell big-brand stuff and only convenience/price is the differentiating factor. No wonder only Walmarts are left.
aa-jv 1y ago
I lived a pretty high life in Los Angeles for 15 years, and when the time came for me to move to Europe (I'm Australian), I had two weeks where I was basically homeless before the flight home - lease expired on the apartment, circumstances with couch-surfing were not ideal - so I tried two weeks living hard, to see what it was like, as I was also going to have a 6 month hiatus before Europe, back home in the Australian outback, which is a different definition of rough - so I thought, what the heck, why not see what its like. I'd lived in a bubble in LA for so long, the bubble had burst, so why not just try it for a couple of weeks and see how far I got .. I kitted myself out with a sleeping bag and a tent and all the rudimentary camping basics, and headed out of my cushy Los Feliz neighborhood, onto the streets. It was the hardest thing I'd ever done to myself. My gear was stolen within days, I got beat up and nearly stuck with dirty heroin needles at least 3 times, almost arrested twice, and yeah .. it just generally sucked. I was not prepared for the hardship. 6 months in the Australian desert after that experience definitely made me appreciate the Australian desert a lot more than I had previously, and I will never, ever try this experiment in an American city again. Its not the street that'll get to you. Its the street life. If I were the only homeless bum in the area, I would've done better I think - but it was all too easy to filter out to skid row after having been chased out of pretty much every 'sanctity' spot I could find, under bridges and in the Griffith Park area - whether by cops or by other homeless people. It was pretty stupid of me, in hindsight. I really didn't need to do it, I was just trying to push my boundaries before heading into the Kimberley region to eat snakes and lizards. That was, by comparison, a far better experience than the reptiles of LA. Would not recommend.
- noelwelsh 1y ago
  Where were you living in the Kimberley? I've only ever been to Broome in that region, but eating lizards definitely seemed optional.
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    Broome for a few days with family, then into the deep desert with Aborigine family members for a few months of walkabout and general western-society detox. I was very lucky to have been invited to see things most whiteys have absolutely no clue about. There are parts of the Kimberley/Pilbarra that are, quite simply, among the most spiritually rewarding places on the planet. I would spend my days in serious anticipation of the night sky, a glorious spectacle which majesty is yet to be matched by any human thing I've seen since then. It was awesome and something I do hope to do again before I perish. Probably the most impactful event in my life was waking up on a dry creek bed surrounded by camels, who had come in the night to sleep at my side, sharing the warm creek stone bed. Catching snakes for tucker was fun too. ;)
ThinkBeat 1y ago
It may be romanic because you have not yet understood the real life consequences of the "lifestyle". The problems, health risks, and stress it brings with it.
dyauspitr 1y ago
This sounds wonderful until the winter. Seems wonderful in temperate or warmer climes.
munificent 1y ago
> a lot of the time spent on routine things like fetching water, lighting fires and prepping food. I would spend hours each day on prepping the dinner from scratch I think about this a lot when it comes to AI automation for coding. Yes, it's nice if an AI can speed up the sort of semi-mindless parts of programming. But I strongly suspect that I need those spans of time for my mind to do the background processing necessary for the actual intellectually challenging parts of the job. I've written two books and anyone who has done that will telling that writing is exhausting. It's an act that is almost purely intellectual with very little menial labor. And it is so utterly draining that it's hard to do for more than a couple of hours a day. I don't relish programming turning into that. I like the easy refactoring and bug fixing tasks because they provide a respite between periods of very deep thinking while still keeping me mostly focused on the overall problem domain. I suspect I would be an overall worse engineer if I lost those.
stronglikedan 1y ago
Surely you're taking a lunch break now that you're back to work, and that is enough time to hit the gym and scarf down some nutrients afterwards, leaving after work for family time. It only takes 15-20 minutes of activity per day to maintain fitness.
TacticalCoder 1y ago
> ... and ever since I have had a completely different outlook on life that is, sadly, not quite compatible with modern life. I hear you. For about two years I got to live in a rural area, on the sea side, 45 minutes drive from the closest highway. 5000 people villages was a 15 minutes drive. Chopping wood to then heat the house, having animals pass in front of me while I'd be reading HN under the porch before going to bed. Walking just for the sake of walking from the house to the sea and then back. Heny Thoreau: "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Full quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2690-i-went-to-the-woods-because-i-wished-to-live https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2690-i-went-to-the-woods-be... That and the quote about cities being about mystification. (3 minutes elapsed) Ah, found it (first read it for someone posted here on HN btw): Thomas Merton's Raids On The Unspeakable: "I am alien to the noises of cities, of people, to the greed of machinery that does not sleep, the hum of power that eats up the night. Where rain, sunlight and darkness are contemned, I cannot sleep. I do not trust anything that has been fabricated to replace the climate of woods or prairies. I can have no confidence in places where the air is first fouled and then cleansed, where the water is first made deadly and then made safe with other poisons. There is nothing in the world of buildings that is not fabricated, and if a tree gets in among the apartment houses by mistake it is taught to grow chemically. It is given a precise reason for existing. They put a sign on it saying it is for health, beauty, perspective; that it is for peace, for prosperity; that it was planted by the mayor’s daughter. All of this is mystification. The city itself lives on its own myth. Instead of waking up and silently existing, the city people prefer a stubborn and fabricated dream; they do not care to be a part of the night, or to be merely of the world. They have constructed a world outside the world, against the world, a world of mechanical fictions which contemn nature and seek only to use it up, thus preventing it from renewing itself and man." Thankfully I still go to that place where I used to live, several times a year. Sky is so clear I can many stars. Once my kid shall turn 18, I plan to go back live there. I don't think us humans were meant to be stacked in cities and high-rises like ants. It's just like communism: great theory but wrong species. > I have to choose if I want to spend time with my family or going with the gym Wife does her gym at home: proper stuff in gym gear. Mostly just simple exercises: no crazy gear besides a few weights. No driving to the gym so twice the time saved. No need to shower at the gym or seat all sweaty in the car. She does 20 or 30 minutes each day.

by halper 1y ago

dominicq 1y ago

Yeah. The options for lots of leisure are either: a) be homeless, or b) be rich. Those of us inbetween always have to choose and make compromises. In my life, this has forced me to quit on a bunch of things I would have continued otherwise, and to lean down things like my workouts and so on. This isn't necessarily bad, I like that I can now do 80% with 20% of time/effort, but still, would be nice to have more slack.

borski 1y ago
There is a third option, which is to move to a place with a much lower cost of living. This isn’t always possible, due to family or job, but it’s not exactly uncommon either. Remote work, in particular, has helped with this. Work fewer hours, for less money, but with fewer needs. Doable, but it’s about what you prioritize and care about.
- apt-apt-apt-apt 1y ago
  > Remote work, in particular, has helped with this. Work fewer hours, for less money Honestly, this sounds like an armchair fantasy. It sounds great on paper– tech jobs pay $150K, so just find a remote job and work half-time. Boom, less taxes and you still have $5K/mo plus tons of time! IME though, 99% of jobs want to own you full-time. There are almost no roles where you can be part-time. The other alternative, independent contractor or Upwork, is also very difficult to start, even if you have good experience and skills.
  - OJFord 1y ago
    Almost nothing is advertised as part time, but way more than 1% would be happily accomodating if you asked to reduce to x days/week, I think. Especially for people coming to that decision while in the job, vs. negotiating for it in an offer.
  - borski 1y ago
    I didn’t say you could do it working for Amazon. There are plenty of law firms, medical offices, etc., that need software and IT help and are happy to have it part-time or provide flexibility. Sure, it won’t be FAANG, but that wasn’t what we were talking about here.
    - apt-apt-apt-apt 1y ago
      What kind of software development would law/medical/other offices need on a flexible basis? I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario where someone could realistically be a dev part-time.
      - borski 1y ago
        There is always a ton of work; off-the-shelf tools are rarely off the shelf and require set up, maintenance, etc. A lot of writing glue code to build dashboards and things. Nowadays, a lot of AI work to improve attorney and paralegal efficiency, etc. Law firms have software devs and/or IT on staff, or they contract it out. Contracting rather than a W2 is also an option. It’s not “fun.” But it pays well and is often doable remotely / part-time.
tasuki 1y ago
c) The (lean) FIRE (financial independence / early retirement) way. If you do the math and can do without some of the pricier luxuries of "modern life", you really don't need much money at all.
theamk 1y ago
Or work as contractor / part-time. I've had two experiences with people like that: - At one place I've worked at (big corp), the QA department was full of contractors. One of the contractors was only working 9 months per year - they spent all summers in Australia. Everyone knew about that and accepted this. The contractor was great, and no one had problems with that (I am sure not having to pay them anything while they were away helped :) ) - At other place, a small startup, we had a team member who was in a band. He'd work for us for a few months, help us to finish a project and make sure customer is happy.. and then disappear for a few more months to tour the US. Again, he was a great programmer, and we always welcomed him back. I am sure that not every place is like this (for example my current workplace is pretty bureaucratic and would not be happy with this arrangement), but things like this definitely exist.

iberator 1y ago

> I wonder what it says about me or my life that my first thought was that it sounded absolutely wonderful. >I do not want to be homeless or get rid of my family, but it sure would be amazing to "be able to" (of course I have a choice: I can just resign) just spend time spending time. Trust me mate. Being homeless or a homeless traveler is HARD. I am homeless for 3 months now and it's absolutely devastating for my soul and morale. Having no "safe harbour" takes away all enjoyment from "freedom". I was an avid hiker as well in the past :)

theteapot 1y ago
> .. it's absolutely devastating for my soul and morale. Why? Stay strong my friend.
- borski 1y ago
  For one thing, because everyone around you looks at you like you are dirty and the scum of the earth, on average. And that’s before you get to the fact that each night you need to find a place to sleep and nobody wants it to be near them. It’s immensely depressing, and hard to stay resilient.
  - theteapot 1y ago
    Yeah I hear you. It would be de-stigmatizing if more people with mean were voluntarily "homeless" like the Leatherman. But people just wanna watch Netflix I guess.
halper 1y ago
I can relate to that, having not always been in such fortunate circumstances as I am now. I hope that your situation improves!
- iberator 1y ago
  thank you
1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

uncircle 1y ago

> I wonder what it says about me or my life that my first thought was that it sounded absolutely wonderful. What sounded wonderful to me was this sentence: 'One store kept a record of an order: "one loaf of bread, a can of sardines, one-pound of fancy crackers, a pie, two quarts of coffee, one gill of brandy and a bottle of beer"' This was a time when food brands weren't really a thing, the store probably had one type of bread, one type of (local) canned sardines, one type of crackers, etc. Each shop had a different variation and "menu", so to speak, all completely unique to each other. These days there is no difference between grocery stores, they all sell big-brand stuff and only convenience/price is the differentiating factor. No wonder only Walmarts are left.

aa-jv 1y ago

I lived a pretty high life in Los Angeles for 15 years, and when the time came for me to move to Europe (I'm Australian), I had two weeks where I was basically homeless before the flight home - lease expired on the apartment, circumstances with couch-surfing were not ideal - so I tried two weeks living hard, to see what it was like, as I was also going to have a 6 month hiatus before Europe, back home in the Australian outback, which is a different definition of rough - so I thought, what the heck, why not see what its like. I'd lived in a bubble in LA for so long, the bubble had burst, so why not just try it for a couple of weeks and see how far I got .. I kitted myself out with a sleeping bag and a tent and all the rudimentary camping basics, and headed out of my cushy Los Feliz neighborhood, onto the streets. It was the hardest thing I'd ever done to myself. My gear was stolen within days, I got beat up and nearly stuck with dirty heroin needles at least 3 times, almost arrested twice, and yeah .. it just generally sucked. I was not prepared for the hardship. 6 months in the Australian desert after that experience definitely made me appreciate the Australian desert a lot more than I had previously, and I will never, ever try this experiment in an American city again. Its not the street that'll get to you. Its the street life. If I were the only homeless bum in the area, I would've done better I think - but it was all too easy to filter out to skid row after having been chased out of pretty much every 'sanctity' spot I could find, under bridges and in the Griffith Park area - whether by cops or by other homeless people. It was pretty stupid of me, in hindsight. I really didn't need to do it, I was just trying to push my boundaries before heading into the Kimberley region to eat snakes and lizards. That was, by comparison, a far better experience than the reptiles of LA. Would not recommend.

noelwelsh 1y ago
Where were you living in the Kimberley? I've only ever been to Broome in that region, but eating lizards definitely seemed optional.
- aa-jv 1y ago
  Broome for a few days with family, then into the deep desert with Aborigine family members for a few months of walkabout and general western-society detox. I was very lucky to have been invited to see things most whiteys have absolutely no clue about. There are parts of the Kimberley/Pilbarra that are, quite simply, among the most spiritually rewarding places on the planet. I would spend my days in serious anticipation of the night sky, a glorious spectacle which majesty is yet to be matched by any human thing I've seen since then. It was awesome and something I do hope to do again before I perish. Probably the most impactful event in my life was waking up on a dry creek bed surrounded by camels, who had come in the night to sleep at my side, sharing the warm creek stone bed. Catching snakes for tucker was fun too. ;)

ThinkBeat 1y ago

It may be romanic because you have not yet understood the real life consequences of the "lifestyle". The problems, health risks, and stress it brings with it.

dyauspitr 1y ago

This sounds wonderful until the winter. Seems wonderful in temperate or warmer climes.

munificent 1y ago

> a lot of the time spent on routine things like fetching water, lighting fires and prepping food. I would spend hours each day on prepping the dinner from scratch I think about this a lot when it comes to AI automation for coding. Yes, it's nice if an AI can speed up the sort of semi-mindless parts of programming. But I strongly suspect that I need those spans of time for my mind to do the background processing necessary for the actual intellectually challenging parts of the job. I've written two books and anyone who has done that will telling that writing is exhausting. It's an act that is almost purely intellectual with very little menial labor. And it is so utterly draining that it's hard to do for more than a couple of hours a day. I don't relish programming turning into that. I like the easy refactoring and bug fixing tasks because they provide a respite between periods of very deep thinking while still keeping me mostly focused on the overall problem domain. I suspect I would be an overall worse engineer if I lost those.

stronglikedan 1y ago

Surely you're taking a lunch break now that you're back to work, and that is enough time to hit the gym and scarf down some nutrients afterwards, leaving after work for family time. It only takes 15-20 minutes of activity per day to maintain fitness.

TacticalCoder 1y ago

> ... and ever since I have had a completely different outlook on life that is, sadly, not quite compatible with modern life. I hear you. For about two years I got to live in a rural area, on the sea side, 45 minutes drive from the closest highway. 5000 people villages was a 15 minutes drive. Chopping wood to then heat the house, having animals pass in front of me while I'd be reading HN under the porch before going to bed. Walking just for the sake of walking from the house to the sea and then back. Heny Thoreau: "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Full quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2690-i-went-to-the-woods-because-i-wished-to-live https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2690-i-went-to-the-woods-be... That and the quote about cities being about mystification. (3 minutes elapsed) Ah, found it (first read it for someone posted here on HN btw): Thomas Merton's Raids On The Unspeakable: "I am alien to the noises of cities, of people, to the greed of machinery that does not sleep, the hum of power that eats up the night. Where rain, sunlight and darkness are contemned, I cannot sleep. I do not trust anything that has been fabricated to replace the climate of woods or prairies. I can have no confidence in places where the air is first fouled and then cleansed, where the water is first made deadly and then made safe with other poisons. There is nothing in the world of buildings that is not fabricated, and if a tree gets in among the apartment houses by mistake it is taught to grow chemically. It is given a precise reason for existing. They put a sign on it saying it is for health, beauty, perspective; that it is for peace, for prosperity; that it was planted by the mayor’s daughter. All of this is mystification. The city itself lives on its own myth. Instead of waking up and silently existing, the city people prefer a stubborn and fabricated dream; they do not care to be a part of the night, or to be merely of the world. They have constructed a world outside the world, against the world, a world of mechanical fictions which contemn nature and seek only to use it up, thus preventing it from renewing itself and man." Thankfully I still go to that place where I used to live, several times a year. Sky is so clear I can many stars. Once my kid shall turn 18, I plan to go back live there. I don't think us humans were meant to be stacked in cities and high-rises like ants. It's just like communism: great theory but wrong species. > I have to choose if I want to spend time with my family or going with the gym Wife does her gym at home: proper stuff in gym gear. Mostly just simple exercises: no crazy gear besides a few weights. No driving to the gym so twice the time saved. No need to shower at the gym or seat all sweaty in the car. She does 20 or 30 minutes each day.