5 ms·

I like the idea of nostr but when I tried to use it it was a lot of CP which made me instantly stop using it. I guess the issue with this type of protocols is t

I like the idea of nostr but when I tried to use it it was a lot of CP which made me instantly stop using it. I guess the issue with this type of protocols is that there must be a way to prevent these very dark and illegal content. As a user I don't want to see it and the submitter should be found and jailed for distributing it. Right now, it's hard to know where it even comes from since it can come from any of the relay you are connected to. Most apps do not show which relay the content originates from and honestly, what can you do? I guess one solution is to only use paid relayes or heavily restricted ones that require invitation. But if that is the case, it kind of defeats the purpose of Nostr to begin with IMO.

nunobrito 1y ago
That statement is wrong at best scenario and fake at worst. I'm a long time user of NOSTR. When you enter the network through any of the main clients you will only see curated topics (trending). The WoT assures that the best content comes up.
- stonogo 1y ago
  I had almost exactly the same experience and lost interest for the same reason. Am I wrong or fake?
  - Geep5 1y ago
    Same experience here, im still trying to but that's tough to get past.
  - nunobrito 1y ago
    Either of them. I can't even fathom how this would be your first time experience there, other people here on this topic confirm that it doesn't happen. If you feel that is wrong, please describe the steps to replicate such situation.
    - stonogo 1y ago
      Happy to help. Step 1: In 2023, notice a crypto spam post on Mastodon with a weird account name. Step 2: Look up what could have made that post, which was bridged from some other service. Step 3: Set up a key, grab a client (I used a web client that deployed to Netlify's free tier). Step 4: Follow some howtos, add relays, follow some accounts that repeat other accounts, try to figure out how discovery works. Step 5: Start seeing really disturbing content. Step 6: Delete all this stuff, and write it off in the same bucket as Freenet. Step 7: Wait some years. Step 8: Get called a liar on a web forum.
      - t1E9mE7JTRjf 1y ago
        What relays were you on? I have never seen CP on nostr. Did you start off following the crypto spammer mentioned or that was just what caused you to find nostr? I'd be curious how you built your initial follow list, as that and the relays you were on is the source of what you see. Kind of like if you go to weird ass websites you'll see that content, but nostr itself doesn't expose anything to a user, it's only a network for content read/write.
        stonogo 1y ago
        I did not keep detailed notes, but there were a couple Gists and a couple blogs that listed relays and stuff to follow. I'm perfectly willing to accept that there was bad stuff in thoses lists, but I don't really care about the mechanisms behind it. Easier just to move on.
      - nunobrito 1y ago
        Come on, so much effort writing and yet so vague. The easiest way to try NOSTR is using any of the common web platforms like https://primal.net https://primal.net or https://yakihonne.com/ https://yakihonne.com/ Heck, you can even install NOSTR clients directly from the App and Play store since years. It is very unbelievable that you followed such a complicated process, even went to effort of deploying to a server (what?!?) and then somehow you see disturbing content without looking explicitly for it. In case you are sincere, try it again using any of the common methods.
- numpad0 1y ago
  Yeah, when a layperson says $SOCIAL_MEDIA is full of child pornography, it often just means legal anime content that would be on advertisements everywhere in Tokyo, especially anime contents that are LESS explicitly sexualized. This happens because Japan always has disproportionately massive online presence with significantly better democratized attention engineering, and so content selections naturally mimic a crossing at Akihabara(despite it almost has been entirely superseded by Chinese tech cultural centers such as Shenzhen), not the Times Square(in NYC), which infuriates a lot of somewhat vocal people. And, the reason why I must bring this up is that it is not merely it is inaccurate labeling, but it is also counter productive to not face it straight on. Such as, people would move away from pornography, making it less actually pornographic, which is more child-pornographic by the standards of people using this term in this manner, because that is what are considered LESS sexualized contents by its producers, which by the way exist in orders of millions in Japan and leaking out fast into Asia at large. TLDR. Hating anime, fine. Just don't call it CP. Your words sound opposite of intent. That's what brought us here. So stop.
  - staticelf 1y ago
    1. I am not a layperson. I used nostr while it was still under active development and when it only had a few NIPs finished. 2. I have been to Japan several times, I know the difference between anime/hentai/lolita and stuff like that. This is not what I was experiencing. 3. I have nothing against pornography in general. The issue is that when people bring up shit like this, we are not taken seriously and this hurts projects like nostr. It will never reach momentum if no steps are taken to prevent illegal material and dark shit like CP. Calling me a liar makes me believe that you are intentionally are downplaying the experiences I and others have, which is helping pedophiles and similar people share their illegal content freely and without consequences. Why I do not know and you should seriously think about it and stop.
    - numpad0 1y ago
      - The smaller group says they see TONS of $thing, - the larger group says they see NONE of $thing, - both are looking at the EXACT same thing. -> The disagreement is in the definition of $thing. It can't get clearer. How else would you explain it? Either you're lying(I guess not), or your definition is way off, or those secret underground organizations made some mistake and their secret Facebook group illegal content leaked out(no such thing on Nostr). By far the most likely scenario is that you're grouping from traffic cones to boxes of oranges to parrots in a forest into the exact same category of offensive contents by standards that nobody else could even understand.
- staticelf 1y ago
  What exactly is wrong about my statement? Stating that my experience is wrong is stupid. I don't know how the app I used works. I simply used the "Snort" app, connected to a few relays and did not use it for a couple of months. Then I came back and instantly saw CP freely shared. Instantly removed the app from the phone. You can't say that it don't exist when people like me have seen it with their own set of eyes. This only makes protocols/projects like nostr set to fail, since regular people won't fucking care and just think of the nostr as something pedophiles are using, which they would not be incorrect in thinking at this moment. I was betting on nostr in the beginning, I was running my own relay and started on a nostr client. But I gave up since clients came popping up everywhere so I didn't really have time to compete.
photios 1y ago
That's quite the bold faced lie. I've been on nostr for years and it's been pretty friendly and never offensive.
- BoorishBears 1y ago
  3 people have shared this experience in the thread. Is there a fundamental reason this wouldn't be true? Isn't it a place where people can anonymously share multimedia with minimal moderation? In my experience even the most toy application exposed to the wider internet will face this issue.
  - nunobrito 1y ago
    Everytime NOSTR is mentioned there are people from other networks coming here to spread FUD. The best thing is asking them to provide steps for replicating their claims, which they won't since it is the not the common user experience at all.
    - immibis 1y ago
      Everything I don't like is FUD.
    - 0xAFFFF 1y ago
      Every time a crypto user faces criticism over their favorite technology they frame it as FUD. Quite a marvel of nature.
      - nunobrito 1y ago
        Not really. Cryptos are born out of criticism for current systems and they are an ever evolving technology fueled by those same critics. What doesn't make sense is when the other party starts making stories just to tarnish other competing technologies. Just now the OP was asked to provide details to replicate his findings and those were indeed very "fuzzy" to say the least.
nothankyou777 1y ago
[dead]
the_real_cher 1y ago
Its horrible but that kind of content means theres no censorship. Its on the individual to block that kind of stuff.
- yellowapple 1y ago
  The problem is that in many jurisdictions (including the ones to which the vast majority of HN users are likely subject), by the time you've received “that kind of stuff” you're already in legal hot water.
hardran3 1y ago
Anytime I see something that is NSFW it is from the fediverse bridge.
digitalbase 1y ago
I think this is a real problem of "an open network". Disgusting people will find the network and abuse it. There is a very insightful thread on nostr about it -> https://asknostr.site/question/note1lhvk3kkmaev6qzlpzzns69vwgdh4s0vh48scux9h4flnv5ztd0ks9484a8 https://asknostr.site/question/note1lhvk3kkmaev6qzlpzzns69vw... The top voted answer was > Relays have to become more whitelisted and less open, and clients have to implement outbox model and stop relying on 2 or 3 big relays, then we can just stop worrying about this.
- sebastix 1y ago
  > I think this is a real problem of "an open network". Disgusting people will find the network and abuse it. Question. Do you prefer open or closed networks? I'm sure you are aware that the internet is an open network.
jasonvorhe 1y ago
It's a more censorship resistant platform, of course it'll see some spam. If this happens, you'll see lots of outrage, people see it as a way to test out and improve WoT. The content (images, videos) itself is often quickly removed by blossom/media relay runners, especially if people report it and once they're cleared the spam notes are basically worthless to anyone because they're just dead links and spammy/abusive hashtags. Due to the hashtags is still quite easy to purge them. I run my own relay and self reported it whenever one of these notes or uploads hit my systems. I built a quick shell script using AI to take care of almost all of that.

nunobrito 1y ago

That statement is wrong at best scenario and fake at worst. I'm a long time user of NOSTR. When you enter the network through any of the main clients you will only see curated topics (trending). The WoT assures that the best content comes up.

stonogo 1y ago
I had almost exactly the same experience and lost interest for the same reason. Am I wrong or fake?
- Geep5 1y ago
  Same experience here, im still trying to but that's tough to get past.
- nunobrito 1y ago
  Either of them. I can't even fathom how this would be your first time experience there, other people here on this topic confirm that it doesn't happen. If you feel that is wrong, please describe the steps to replicate such situation.
  - stonogo 1y ago
    Happy to help. Step 1: In 2023, notice a crypto spam post on Mastodon with a weird account name. Step 2: Look up what could have made that post, which was bridged from some other service. Step 3: Set up a key, grab a client (I used a web client that deployed to Netlify's free tier). Step 4: Follow some howtos, add relays, follow some accounts that repeat other accounts, try to figure out how discovery works. Step 5: Start seeing really disturbing content. Step 6: Delete all this stuff, and write it off in the same bucket as Freenet. Step 7: Wait some years. Step 8: Get called a liar on a web forum.
    - t1E9mE7JTRjf 1y ago
      What relays were you on? I have never seen CP on nostr. Did you start off following the crypto spammer mentioned or that was just what caused you to find nostr? I'd be curious how you built your initial follow list, as that and the relays you were on is the source of what you see. Kind of like if you go to weird ass websites you'll see that content, but nostr itself doesn't expose anything to a user, it's only a network for content read/write.
      - stonogo 1y ago
        I did not keep detailed notes, but there were a couple Gists and a couple blogs that listed relays and stuff to follow. I'm perfectly willing to accept that there was bad stuff in thoses lists, but I don't really care about the mechanisms behind it. Easier just to move on.
    - nunobrito 1y ago
      Come on, so much effort writing and yet so vague. The easiest way to try NOSTR is using any of the common web platforms like https://primal.net https://primal.net or https://yakihonne.com/ https://yakihonne.com/ Heck, you can even install NOSTR clients directly from the App and Play store since years. It is very unbelievable that you followed such a complicated process, even went to effort of deploying to a server (what?!?) and then somehow you see disturbing content without looking explicitly for it. In case you are sincere, try it again using any of the common methods.
numpad0 1y ago
Yeah, when a layperson says $SOCIAL_MEDIA is full of child pornography, it often just means legal anime content that would be on advertisements everywhere in Tokyo, especially anime contents that are LESS explicitly sexualized. This happens because Japan always has disproportionately massive online presence with significantly better democratized attention engineering, and so content selections naturally mimic a crossing at Akihabara(despite it almost has been entirely superseded by Chinese tech cultural centers such as Shenzhen), not the Times Square(in NYC), which infuriates a lot of somewhat vocal people. And, the reason why I must bring this up is that it is not merely it is inaccurate labeling, but it is also counter productive to not face it straight on. Such as, people would move away from pornography, making it less actually pornographic, which is more child-pornographic by the standards of people using this term in this manner, because that is what are considered LESS sexualized contents by its producers, which by the way exist in orders of millions in Japan and leaking out fast into Asia at large. TLDR. Hating anime, fine. Just don't call it CP. Your words sound opposite of intent. That's what brought us here. So stop.
- staticelf 1y ago
  1. I am not a layperson. I used nostr while it was still under active development and when it only had a few NIPs finished. 2. I have been to Japan several times, I know the difference between anime/hentai/lolita and stuff like that. This is not what I was experiencing. 3. I have nothing against pornography in general. The issue is that when people bring up shit like this, we are not taken seriously and this hurts projects like nostr. It will never reach momentum if no steps are taken to prevent illegal material and dark shit like CP. Calling me a liar makes me believe that you are intentionally are downplaying the experiences I and others have, which is helping pedophiles and similar people share their illegal content freely and without consequences. Why I do not know and you should seriously think about it and stop.
  - numpad0 1y ago
    - The smaller group says they see TONS of $thing, - the larger group says they see NONE of $thing, - both are looking at the EXACT same thing. -> The disagreement is in the definition of $thing. It can't get clearer. How else would you explain it? Either you're lying(I guess not), or your definition is way off, or those secret underground organizations made some mistake and their secret Facebook group illegal content leaked out(no such thing on Nostr). By far the most likely scenario is that you're grouping from traffic cones to boxes of oranges to parrots in a forest into the exact same category of offensive contents by standards that nobody else could even understand.
staticelf 1y ago
What exactly is wrong about my statement? Stating that my experience is wrong is stupid. I don't know how the app I used works. I simply used the "Snort" app, connected to a few relays and did not use it for a couple of months. Then I came back and instantly saw CP freely shared. Instantly removed the app from the phone. You can't say that it don't exist when people like me have seen it with their own set of eyes. This only makes protocols/projects like nostr set to fail, since regular people won't fucking care and just think of the nostr as something pedophiles are using, which they would not be incorrect in thinking at this moment. I was betting on nostr in the beginning, I was running my own relay and started on a nostr client. But I gave up since clients came popping up everywhere so I didn't really have time to compete.

photios 1y ago

That's quite the bold faced lie. I've been on nostr for years and it's been pretty friendly and never offensive.

BoorishBears 1y ago
3 people have shared this experience in the thread. Is there a fundamental reason this wouldn't be true? Isn't it a place where people can anonymously share multimedia with minimal moderation? In my experience even the most toy application exposed to the wider internet will face this issue.
- nunobrito 1y ago
  Everytime NOSTR is mentioned there are people from other networks coming here to spread FUD. The best thing is asking them to provide steps for replicating their claims, which they won't since it is the not the common user experience at all.
  - immibis 1y ago
    Everything I don't like is FUD.
  - 0xAFFFF 1y ago
    Every time a crypto user faces criticism over their favorite technology they frame it as FUD. Quite a marvel of nature.
    - nunobrito 1y ago
      Not really. Cryptos are born out of criticism for current systems and they are an ever evolving technology fueled by those same critics. What doesn't make sense is when the other party starts making stories just to tarnish other competing technologies. Just now the OP was asked to provide details to replicate his findings and those were indeed very "fuzzy" to say the least.

nothankyou777 1y ago

[dead]

the_real_cher 1y ago

Its horrible but that kind of content means theres no censorship. Its on the individual to block that kind of stuff.

yellowapple 1y ago
The problem is that in many jurisdictions (including the ones to which the vast majority of HN users are likely subject), by the time you've received “that kind of stuff” you're already in legal hot water.

hardran3 1y ago

Anytime I see something that is NSFW it is from the fediverse bridge.

digitalbase 1y ago

I think this is a real problem of "an open network". Disgusting people will find the network and abuse it. There is a very insightful thread on nostr about it -> https://asknostr.site/question/note1lhvk3kkmaev6qzlpzzns69vwgdh4s0vh48scux9h4flnv5ztd0ks9484a8 https://asknostr.site/question/note1lhvk3kkmaev6qzlpzzns69vw... The top voted answer was > Relays have to become more whitelisted and less open, and clients have to implement outbox model and stop relying on 2 or 3 big relays, then we can just stop worrying about this.

sebastix 1y ago
> I think this is a real problem of "an open network". Disgusting people will find the network and abuse it. Question. Do you prefer open or closed networks? I'm sure you are aware that the internet is an open network.

jasonvorhe 1y ago

It's a more censorship resistant platform, of course it'll see some spam. If this happens, you'll see lots of outrage, people see it as a way to test out and improve WoT. The content (images, videos) itself is often quickly removed by blossom/media relay runners, especially if people report it and once they're cleared the spam notes are basically worthless to anyone because they're just dead links and spammy/abusive hashtags. Due to the hashtags is still quite easy to purge them. I run my own relay and self reported it whenever one of these notes or uploads hit my systems. I built a quick shell script using AI to take care of almost all of that.