4 ms·

At least Apple still allows the user to reposition the dock/taskbar.

bee_rider 1y ago
That seems like a pretty low bar, is there any window manager that doesn’t have that sort of basic configurability? Linux window managers are mostly made by volunteers, so I’m not picky at all. But, locking the dock and taskbar in place, if anything, seems like extra work. Why would anybody do extra work to make their window manager worse?
- blooalien 1y ago
  > That seems like a pretty low bar, is there any window manager that doesn’t have that sort of basic configurability? I heard rumours that Win 11 was makin' folks jump through hoops to move the taskbar anywhere other than left or right along the bottom. Personally, I ain't used Windows since Win 7; (The last really decent / tolerable Windows), and even back then I was already dual-booting with Linux.
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    Not jumping through hoops, you just can't put it at the sides anymore
- MiddleEndian 1y ago
  The taskbar can only go on the bottom in Windows 11 lol
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    "Guys, right now users can configure the positioning of the taskbar. We should remove it! Just hardcode it to the bottom!"
- skirmish 1y ago
  Windows 11 has stupid unchangeable defaults that keep getting worse with each service pack. To survive in a Windows VM I run, the first thing I install is always a horrible hack to restore flexibility: [1]. [1] https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/wiki/All-features https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/wiki/All-features
- jm4 1y ago
  GNOME. You have to install an extension to get a dock at all. Almost nobody runs vanilla GNOME because it's missing basic things. They refuse to have a system tray. I don't particularly like the system tray, but that doesn't change the fact that some apps continue to run the background when you quit them by closing the window. Up until recently, you had to install a system tray extension so you could properly quit programs like Steam. Finally, the GNOME developers added functionality where you can see background apps and close them, but it's hidden behind a few clicks. A clipboard manager is another one. KDE includes it by default. GNOME? There's an extension for that. And the problem with extensions is they always break every single time GNOME is updated.
  - reissbaker 1y ago
    This generally isn't my experience with GNOME. You have to install an extension to get a dock at all. No, there's an auto-hiding dock built-in. Pressing the Super key acts like better version of Apple's Expose feature: it shows the windows you have open, auto-opens the dock, and focuses the application launcher search bar so you can just start typing and launch an app. You had to install a system tray extension I'm sure you needed to at some point, but (as you mention), that's no longer the case: it's built in by default. clipboard manager If you mean clipboard history... That's true. Although macOS doesn't have a built-in clipboard history viewer either, and I never particularly missed having one. There are plenty of GNOME extensions with clipboard history if you want one. Generally speaking I like GNOME much more than KDE, since GNOME's gesture support is much better than KDE's. I also personally dislike Windows-style infinitely-nesting-menu taskbars, which is what KDE uses, whereas GNOME is more macOS-like (although it has its own, IMO slightly cleaner style... And of course, it's much more modifiable than macOS).
    - jorvi 1y ago
      > No, there's an auto-hiding dock built-in. Pressing the Super key acts like better version of Apple's Expose feature: it shows the windows you have open, auto-opens the dock, and focuses the application launcher search bar so you can just start typing and launch an app. So, not a Dock. People don't want their whole desktop to fly everywhere and zoom out when they just want to quickly switch or launch an application with the mouse. They just want to mouse over the bottom of their screen and click. Same for launching an application via keyboard / doing a calculation / finding an emoji. People just want something akin to Spotlight (think uLauncher on Linux). Something lightweight that pops over and allows them to quickly do the thing, without a lot of visual clutter happening and then happening again in reverse.
- GreenWatermelon 1y ago
  Windows. Windows removed the task bar positioning feature in Windows 11.
  - oblio 1y ago
    People complain about that but I've been using Windows for 25+ years including working in tech almost exclusively on Windows desktops and laptops for 20+ years across about 10 companies and the amount of times I've seen a Windows taskbar be placed anywhere except at the bottom can be counted on one hand. I'm fairly sure it's one of those features used by 0.0001% of the user base but probably 95% of those 200 000 users are techies so every forum is filled with their complaints :-)
    - lmm 1y ago
      Yeah. More relevantly I suspect that more people move the taskbar accidentally than deliberately - more than once I've seen a relative have it on the left or the top and ask how to put it back.
    - wolvesechoes 1y ago
      That's the thing you need to keep mind when reading anything on HN. Otherwise you would believe no one uses Windows (mostly because of taskbar thing) or Firefox is just unusable because it is unavoidable you constantly keep 1234 tabs open.
    - account42 1y ago
      The problem with that attitude is that while niche features might be used by a small percentage of the user base, for every feature its a different subset. If you remove all niche features you will end up with software that is worse for a large portion of your users. This is the reason why telemetry has negative value in the hands of the average developer. You can make all kinds of logically sounding conclusions from it but they are still wrong.
walthamstow 1y ago
What's mad is how few people do it. You'd think on a 16:10 people would want to make the most of the 10.

That seems like a pretty low bar, is there any window manager that doesn’t have that sort of basic configurability? Linux window managers are mostly made by volunteers, so I’m not picky at all. But, locking the dock and taskbar in place, if anything, seems like extra work. Why would anybody do extra work to make their window manager worse?

blooalien 1y ago
> That seems like a pretty low bar, is there any window manager that doesn’t have that sort of basic configurability? I heard rumours that Win 11 was makin' folks jump through hoops to move the taskbar anywhere other than left or right along the bottom. Personally, I ain't used Windows since Win 7; (The last really decent / tolerable Windows), and even back then I was already dual-booting with Linux.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Not jumping through hoops, you just can't put it at the sides anymore
MiddleEndian 1y ago
The taskbar can only go on the bottom in Windows 11 lol
- johnisgood 1y ago
  "Guys, right now users can configure the positioning of the taskbar. We should remove it! Just hardcode it to the bottom!"
skirmish 1y ago
Windows 11 has stupid unchangeable defaults that keep getting worse with each service pack. To survive in a Windows VM I run, the first thing I install is always a horrible hack to restore flexibility: [1]. [1] https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/wiki/All-features https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/wiki/All-features
jm4 1y ago
GNOME. You have to install an extension to get a dock at all. Almost nobody runs vanilla GNOME because it's missing basic things. They refuse to have a system tray. I don't particularly like the system tray, but that doesn't change the fact that some apps continue to run the background when you quit them by closing the window. Up until recently, you had to install a system tray extension so you could properly quit programs like Steam. Finally, the GNOME developers added functionality where you can see background apps and close them, but it's hidden behind a few clicks. A clipboard manager is another one. KDE includes it by default. GNOME? There's an extension for that. And the problem with extensions is they always break every single time GNOME is updated.
- reissbaker 1y ago
  This generally isn't my experience with GNOME. You have to install an extension to get a dock at all. No, there's an auto-hiding dock built-in. Pressing the Super key acts like better version of Apple's Expose feature: it shows the windows you have open, auto-opens the dock, and focuses the application launcher search bar so you can just start typing and launch an app. You had to install a system tray extension I'm sure you needed to at some point, but (as you mention), that's no longer the case: it's built in by default. clipboard manager If you mean clipboard history... That's true. Although macOS doesn't have a built-in clipboard history viewer either, and I never particularly missed having one. There are plenty of GNOME extensions with clipboard history if you want one. Generally speaking I like GNOME much more than KDE, since GNOME's gesture support is much better than KDE's. I also personally dislike Windows-style infinitely-nesting-menu taskbars, which is what KDE uses, whereas GNOME is more macOS-like (although it has its own, IMO slightly cleaner style... And of course, it's much more modifiable than macOS).
  - jorvi 1y ago
    > No, there's an auto-hiding dock built-in. Pressing the Super key acts like better version of Apple's Expose feature: it shows the windows you have open, auto-opens the dock, and focuses the application launcher search bar so you can just start typing and launch an app. So, not a Dock. People don't want their whole desktop to fly everywhere and zoom out when they just want to quickly switch or launch an application with the mouse. They just want to mouse over the bottom of their screen and click. Same for launching an application via keyboard / doing a calculation / finding an emoji. People just want something akin to Spotlight (think uLauncher on Linux). Something lightweight that pops over and allows them to quickly do the thing, without a lot of visual clutter happening and then happening again in reverse.
GreenWatermelon 1y ago
Windows. Windows removed the task bar positioning feature in Windows 11.
- oblio 1y ago
  People complain about that but I've been using Windows for 25+ years including working in tech almost exclusively on Windows desktops and laptops for 20+ years across about 10 companies and the amount of times I've seen a Windows taskbar be placed anywhere except at the bottom can be counted on one hand. I'm fairly sure it's one of those features used by 0.0001% of the user base but probably 95% of those 200 000 users are techies so every forum is filled with their complaints :-)
  - lmm 1y ago
    Yeah. More relevantly I suspect that more people move the taskbar accidentally than deliberately - more than once I've seen a relative have it on the left or the top and ask how to put it back.
  - wolvesechoes 1y ago
    That's the thing you need to keep mind when reading anything on HN. Otherwise you would believe no one uses Windows (mostly because of taskbar thing) or Firefox is just unusable because it is unavoidable you constantly keep 1234 tabs open.
  - account42 1y ago
    The problem with that attitude is that while niche features might be used by a small percentage of the user base, for every feature its a different subset. If you remove all niche features you will end up with software that is worse for a large portion of your users. This is the reason why telemetry has negative value in the hands of the average developer. You can make all kinds of logically sounding conclusions from it but they are still wrong.

walthamstow 1y ago

What's mad is how few people do it. You'd think on a 16:10 people would want to make the most of the 10.