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This whole flag-waving typical Techcrunch rant is based on the assumption that education only serves to feed the economy. Profit is all that matters. So many o

by rickmb 14y ago

This whole flag-waving typical Techcrunch rant is based on the assumption that education only serves to feed the economy. Profit is all that matters. So many of America's social problems can be traced back to a lack of a decent educational system, and if anything, this article inadvertently explains why. If someone really thinks economic dominance is enough to keep an empire from crumbling, I suggest some history lessons.

moistgorilla 14y ago
Well put. They don't realize that a well educated population is a more rational one. It's also one of the reasons why I am against this whole shift in only learning things that are "immediately practical" such as math and science (don't get me wrong, I think math and science are important but other subjects are just as important). It's one of the reasons why I wish philosophy and debate were mandatory courses in most schools. I don't believe making kids memorize multiplication tables when they are in kindergarten is going to help them, especially when they are barely able to comprehend them since they are so cognitively underdeveloped. In addition: From what I am noticing, the kids that go to college to study degrees that involve dealing with unsolvable or unsolved problems are the kids that understand and not just memorize what they are taught. The education system downplays understanding and focuses on memorization. This obviously comes from America's result based culture. This leads to a population of people that can't think for themselves and only do what they are told. Something that goes against the whole idea of democracy. TL;DR I believe that at younger ages children should be taught how to think rather than what to memorize.
- genwin 14y ago
  The country's taking the opposite path. Kids start their school day with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Wealthy. Ignorance is strength.
  - milesokeefe 14y ago
    What does the pledge of allegiance have to do with wealthy people?
    - genwin 14y ago
      Pledging allegiance to the flag/country encourage kids to support or fight in for-profit wars and other nefarious gov't activities that mainly benefit the rich. The "under God" part is advertising for religions, again profiting the wealthy few.
- ScottBurson 14y ago
  Salon had an interesting piece on this just the other day: http://www.salon.com/2012/09/14/conservatives_killed_the_liberal_arts/?source=newsletter http://www.salon.com/2012/09/14/conservatives_killed_the_lib...
yummyfajitas 14y ago
So many of America's social problems can be traced back to a lack of a decent educational system... Can you explain this claim? I.e., both define what you mean by "social problems", and how a "decent" educational system would help.
- moistgorilla 14y ago
  Not the person that you are responding to but I made this point in my response to him. America's education system only cares about the results. I.E. how well can he do on a standardized test, how good are his grades, etc. This leads to people taking the easy way out and just memorizing everything without understanding or thinking critically about what they are doing. These people aren't thinking for themselves and instead are just taking everything told to them as fact and regurgitating it when they are asked. This obviously leads to a problem when they become adults and need to make decisions on who is to lead them. Instead of coming to their own conclusion they will listen to their parents, preacher, neighbor, etc. All of whom might have come to their conclusion of who is the best leader faultily. In Addition: Just to give you guys an example of where this is being most blatantly done, literature classes. I remember in my lit classes that almost 90% of the class did not read the book. Instead they just took the spark notes and memorized key points taking nothing out of the text. As soon as the exam was over they forgot everything.
  - busyant 14y ago
    Can you give me an example of a country that does it "right"? I'm genuinely curious, but I also suspect that twenty different people here would give twenty different answers to this question.
  - hack_edu 14y ago
    The most common critique of the US system is the lack of focus on testing and measurable results. Bureaucrats and teachers unions have fought this push for decades and only now has it taken hold. Even if you are right that the American educational system now focuses too much on standardized tests, this focus pales in comparison to almost any other industrialized nation. And even then, this focus on testing is hardly even a decade old. Speak to a student from China, Japan, the UK, or Ireland and get back to me about focuses on standardized testing.
Turing_Machine 14y ago
Free education is out there for anyone who wants it and has the motivation to get it. Hint: you're soaking in it. The Internet gives us access to a significant portion of the accumulated knowledge of the human race, and access to knowledgeable mentors and colleagues around the world. You can get it free at your local library. True, those educational resources are largely avalable thanks to those evil profit-oriented tech companies, but one can't have everything.
- kmfrk 14y ago
  That's all well and good, but some of us don't have an inbox full of job offers, free education or not.
- Silhouette 14y ago
  Free education is out there for anyone who wants it and has the motivation to get it. I think you're oversimplifying. Thanks to the Internet, today we have the best virtual reference library available in the history of humanity. That solves one problem, but it introduces another: information overload. Quality of teaching has always been a big influence on the quality of learning, but the emphasis is changing. Teaching has always been valuable because those with more knowledge/experience and the ability to convey that knowledge/experience effectively to someone else can help that other person to learn. Today, with better access to raw information, there is less need for teachers to play that role, but it is more valuable than ever to have a knowledgeable guide who can help the student to navigate the mass of information available and to choose which aspects to prioritise for best results at that stage in their personal development.
  - Jach 14y ago
    Information overload exists, but I don't think it's the problem here. There are plenty of garden paths on the internet, Khan Academy being just one, where a path is set for a student to follow and learn something with their hand being held by a competent teacher. You can also find willing and competent tutors (usually free!) by googling for a forum on the subject of interest. I think the problem is closer related with bad genetics and laziness, and these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. This isn't the whole picture but it captures a lot more than "information overload".

by rickmb 14y ago

moistgorilla 14y ago

Well put. They don't realize that a well educated population is a more rational one. It's also one of the reasons why I am against this whole shift in only learning things that are "immediately practical" such as math and science (don't get me wrong, I think math and science are important but other subjects are just as important). It's one of the reasons why I wish philosophy and debate were mandatory courses in most schools. I don't believe making kids memorize multiplication tables when they are in kindergarten is going to help them, especially when they are barely able to comprehend them since they are so cognitively underdeveloped. In addition: From what I am noticing, the kids that go to college to study degrees that involve dealing with unsolvable or unsolved problems are the kids that understand and not just memorize what they are taught. The education system downplays understanding and focuses on memorization. This obviously comes from America's result based culture. This leads to a population of people that can't think for themselves and only do what they are told. Something that goes against the whole idea of democracy. TL;DR I believe that at younger ages children should be taught how to think rather than what to memorize.

genwin 14y ago
The country's taking the opposite path. Kids start their school day with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Wealthy. Ignorance is strength.
- milesokeefe 14y ago
  What does the pledge of allegiance have to do with wealthy people?
  - genwin 14y ago
    Pledging allegiance to the flag/country encourage kids to support or fight in for-profit wars and other nefarious gov't activities that mainly benefit the rich. The "under God" part is advertising for religions, again profiting the wealthy few.
ScottBurson 14y ago
Salon had an interesting piece on this just the other day: http://www.salon.com/2012/09/14/conservatives_killed_the_liberal_arts/?source=newsletter http://www.salon.com/2012/09/14/conservatives_killed_the_lib...

yummyfajitas 14y ago

So many of America's social problems can be traced back to a lack of a decent educational system... Can you explain this claim? I.e., both define what you mean by "social problems", and how a "decent" educational system would help.

moistgorilla 14y ago
Not the person that you are responding to but I made this point in my response to him. America's education system only cares about the results. I.E. how well can he do on a standardized test, how good are his grades, etc. This leads to people taking the easy way out and just memorizing everything without understanding or thinking critically about what they are doing. These people aren't thinking for themselves and instead are just taking everything told to them as fact and regurgitating it when they are asked. This obviously leads to a problem when they become adults and need to make decisions on who is to lead them. Instead of coming to their own conclusion they will listen to their parents, preacher, neighbor, etc. All of whom might have come to their conclusion of who is the best leader faultily. In Addition: Just to give you guys an example of where this is being most blatantly done, literature classes. I remember in my lit classes that almost 90% of the class did not read the book. Instead they just took the spark notes and memorized key points taking nothing out of the text. As soon as the exam was over they forgot everything.
- busyant 14y ago
  Can you give me an example of a country that does it "right"? I'm genuinely curious, but I also suspect that twenty different people here would give twenty different answers to this question.
- hack_edu 14y ago
  The most common critique of the US system is the lack of focus on testing and measurable results. Bureaucrats and teachers unions have fought this push for decades and only now has it taken hold. Even if you are right that the American educational system now focuses too much on standardized tests, this focus pales in comparison to almost any other industrialized nation. And even then, this focus on testing is hardly even a decade old. Speak to a student from China, Japan, the UK, or Ireland and get back to me about focuses on standardized testing.

Turing_Machine 14y ago

Free education is out there for anyone who wants it and has the motivation to get it. Hint: you're soaking in it. The Internet gives us access to a significant portion of the accumulated knowledge of the human race, and access to knowledgeable mentors and colleagues around the world. You can get it free at your local library. True, those educational resources are largely avalable thanks to those evil profit-oriented tech companies, but one can't have everything.

kmfrk 14y ago
That's all well and good, but some of us don't have an inbox full of job offers, free education or not.
Silhouette 14y ago
Free education is out there for anyone who wants it and has the motivation to get it. I think you're oversimplifying. Thanks to the Internet, today we have the best virtual reference library available in the history of humanity. That solves one problem, but it introduces another: information overload. Quality of teaching has always been a big influence on the quality of learning, but the emphasis is changing. Teaching has always been valuable because those with more knowledge/experience and the ability to convey that knowledge/experience effectively to someone else can help that other person to learn. Today, with better access to raw information, there is less need for teachers to play that role, but it is more valuable than ever to have a knowledgeable guide who can help the student to navigate the mass of information available and to choose which aspects to prioritise for best results at that stage in their personal development.
- Jach 14y ago
  Information overload exists, but I don't think it's the problem here. There are plenty of garden paths on the internet, Khan Academy being just one, where a path is set for a student to follow and learn something with their hand being held by a competent teacher. You can also find willing and competent tutors (usually free!) by googling for a forum on the subject of interest. I think the problem is closer related with bad genetics and laziness, and these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. This isn't the whole picture but it captures a lot more than "information overload".