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> I couldn't believe I was actually understanding it correctly and that this could be legal I think laws are usually reactive. Why would there be a ban on such

> I couldn't believe I was actually understanding it correctly and that this could be legal I think laws are usually reactive. Why would there be a ban on such a silly thing.

vkou 1y ago
It's not about banning a particular design, it's about mandating that emergency egress is possible. If you're ever trapped in a burning car and can't open the fucking doors you might find that requirement to be a little bit less silly than you think it to be.
- tartuffe78 1y ago
  No other car company has screwed it up this badly before. Tesla may force it to happen if enough deaths occur.
  - brandonagr2 1y ago
    If a car has a physical child lock switch engaged, it's not possible to open the door from the inside even in an emergency. Clearly rear emergency egress is not a requirement, a child opening the door while going down the highway is a much larger risk.
    - dingaling 1y ago
      Child locks can be automatically disengaged under high deceleration.
  - weaksauce 1y ago
    there was a rich woman that drove into a lake on her estate and drowned because she couldn't open the door in time. you'd think a high profile death of a rich person would change something at least.
    - vkou 1y ago
      She was drunk as a skunk, and drowned in a private lake on her estate, which somewhat dampens public outrage and sympathy. ... Also, exiting a sinking car - any make and model of sinking car [1] - is a non-trivial exercise. --- [1] You might be okay if you're in a convertible with the roof up.
    - xoa 1y ago
      >there was a rich woman that drove into a lake on her estate and drowned because she couldn't open the door in time. Just to expand a bit on vkou's sibling reply, exiting a car that has already gone under water is absolutely non-trivial in any vehicle. Water pressure goes up very fast with depth: at just 10' (3m) deep, just minimum recommended depth for a simple outdoor low dive board pool, you're already at 4.25 psi. At 16.5' (5m) you're up to 7.1 psi. Just using a tape measure on a more compact car (not my truck) our in the parking lot, a GTI mini, front door is ~1680 in^2 in surface area. So you already cannot open the door if it's air inside and water outside and you're in even 10' of water let alone more. My recollection from driver's ed and then emergency response is that you're supposed to get the window open (by lowering it in time if electric or unshorted or more likely by shattering it with the emergency tool you hopefully have in the car) and let water fill the interior to equalize the pressure, trying to get a last breath from the bubble at the top as long as possible. Then you've got a breath-full-of-air time to get the door open (or get out through the broken window) and get to the surface. And not lose your bearings if it's anything but shallow+bright sunlight, etc., easy to do under water when panicked if you're not well trained to instinctively do tricks like let out a small stream of bubbles to feel which way is up. It's a pretty frightening (and thankfully rare) scenario. I think I vaguely remember the incident you're talking about, and bad doors certainly didn't help, but it's not the same impact as someone being trapped right on land where 99.9% of vehicles made in history would allow an easy exit.
mrguyorama 1y ago
Why is this desirable? Why is it a good thing that laws only happen after people already die from an avoidable and predictable problem?
- potato3732842 1y ago
  It's not. It's a figment of stupid engineer circle jerk culture where they'll do all sorts of insane actuator and automation implementations to avoid having to design a simple part to withstand the force of a human operating it. There are many ways to do a fold flush manual handle/lever and hook that up to a traditional door mechanism.
- rightbyte 1y ago
  I'm sorry I might have chosen my words poorly. I am also advocating more proactive safety crackdown in cases like this. I'm just relating to the infeasable task of proactively banning permutations of silly designs.

> I couldn't believe I was actually understanding it correctly and that this could be legal I think laws are usually reactive. Why would there be a ban on such a silly thing.

vkou 1y ago

It's not about banning a particular design, it's about mandating that emergency egress is possible. If you're ever trapped in a burning car and can't open the fucking doors you might find that requirement to be a little bit less silly than you think it to be.

tartuffe78 1y ago
No other car company has screwed it up this badly before. Tesla may force it to happen if enough deaths occur.
- brandonagr2 1y ago
  If a car has a physical child lock switch engaged, it's not possible to open the door from the inside even in an emergency. Clearly rear emergency egress is not a requirement, a child opening the door while going down the highway is a much larger risk.
  - dingaling 1y ago
    Child locks can be automatically disengaged under high deceleration.
- weaksauce 1y ago
  there was a rich woman that drove into a lake on her estate and drowned because she couldn't open the door in time. you'd think a high profile death of a rich person would change something at least.
  - vkou 1y ago
    She was drunk as a skunk, and drowned in a private lake on her estate, which somewhat dampens public outrage and sympathy. ... Also, exiting a sinking car - any make and model of sinking car [1] - is a non-trivial exercise. --- [1] You might be okay if you're in a convertible with the roof up.
  - xoa 1y ago
    >there was a rich woman that drove into a lake on her estate and drowned because she couldn't open the door in time. Just to expand a bit on vkou's sibling reply, exiting a car that has already gone under water is absolutely non-trivial in any vehicle. Water pressure goes up very fast with depth: at just 10' (3m) deep, just minimum recommended depth for a simple outdoor low dive board pool, you're already at 4.25 psi. At 16.5' (5m) you're up to 7.1 psi. Just using a tape measure on a more compact car (not my truck) our in the parking lot, a GTI mini, front door is ~1680 in^2 in surface area. So you already cannot open the door if it's air inside and water outside and you're in even 10' of water let alone more. My recollection from driver's ed and then emergency response is that you're supposed to get the window open (by lowering it in time if electric or unshorted or more likely by shattering it with the emergency tool you hopefully have in the car) and let water fill the interior to equalize the pressure, trying to get a last breath from the bubble at the top as long as possible. Then you've got a breath-full-of-air time to get the door open (or get out through the broken window) and get to the surface. And not lose your bearings if it's anything but shallow+bright sunlight, etc., easy to do under water when panicked if you're not well trained to instinctively do tricks like let out a small stream of bubbles to feel which way is up. It's a pretty frightening (and thankfully rare) scenario. I think I vaguely remember the incident you're talking about, and bad doors certainly didn't help, but it's not the same impact as someone being trapped right on land where 99.9% of vehicles made in history would allow an easy exit.

mrguyorama 1y ago

Why is this desirable? Why is it a good thing that laws only happen after people already die from an avoidable and predictable problem?

potato3732842 1y ago
It's not. It's a figment of stupid engineer circle jerk culture where they'll do all sorts of insane actuator and automation implementations to avoid having to design a simple part to withstand the force of a human operating it. There are many ways to do a fold flush manual handle/lever and hook that up to a traditional door mechanism.
rightbyte 1y ago
I'm sorry I might have chosen my words poorly. I am also advocating more proactive safety crackdown in cases like this. I'm just relating to the infeasable task of proactively banning permutations of silly designs.