5 ms·

This 100%. Just look at the screenshot on the KDE page for Konsole: https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ What's up with the massive amou

by WD-42 1y ago

This 100%. Just look at the screenshot on the KDE page for Konsole: https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ What's up with the massive amount of chrome used for nothing except new tab/copy/paste buttons? Is it really necessary to take up what could be used for 2+ extra lines of terminal output for a labeled Copy button? Compare it to gnome console, or any other terminal really, and you will get far more terminal output for the size of the window, as it should be. And it's not just Konsole. So many KDE apps have this same problem. Giant labeled buttons taking up space from the actual content, for things you will never use or have well established keyboard shortcuts already.

sho_hn 1y ago
In Konsole's defense, this is the actual default appearance of a Konsole window when you launch it for the first time in the current stable release: https://mero.ng/i/lWMWazUP.png https://mero.ng/i/lWMWazUP.png The screenshot on the website has all sorts of optional bits enabled, and I would readily agree is not a good showcase. The reason all those optional bits exist is because you'd be surprised who ends up using a terminal emulator in a general purpose desktop GUI used in many large IT deployments. E.g. a lot of folks who are used to PuTTy on Windows and want a little GUI for SSH connections, and for them this is the game changer. The "try to show all the goods in your screenshot" mindset is really not a good one though, agree :)
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  That's better, but the toolbar/buttons could always be configured away. The real problem is the context menu. Has it been simplified or made configurable?
  - Liquid_Fire 1y ago
    Out of interest, what do you use the context menu for in a terminal emulator so often that it bothers you? I can't even remember the last time I opened it.
    - mixmastamyk 1y ago
      I hide all UI and use only the context menu, 90% of the time to open a new tab, 5% of the time to split a tab, and 4% of the time to bring up the config dialog. 1% to open a new window, though I'm often doing Ctrl+Alt+T for that recently. This is what I've done since SGI 4DWM Terminal (and ancient NT Command Prompt), and almost all other terminal emulators can be configured to do so. Konsole stands alone (to my knowledge) in its insistence on cruft all over the interface. The terminal widget itself seems fine. To be clear, I don't mind obscure options, but they should live in the control panel. See my cousin comment for more details.
      - distances 1y ago
        You can eliminate that 90% by Ctrl+Shift+T.
        mixmastamyk 1y ago
        Doesn't help when coming from a browser. Ctrl+Alt+T works without the Terminal in focus however. Ctrl+Shift+T needs me to click in the terminal first then go back to the keyboard. Waste of time.
        distances 1y ago
        I almost always switch windows with Alt+Tab, not with a mouse, so it fits very well for that flow. Understandable if it doesn't do the trick for you though.
        mixmastamyk 1y ago
        I’m well aware of all these hotkeys. The issue is I’m using the mouse with my browser, scrolling clicking etc. Reading gives me an idea so I click on my terminal that’s always open. This is the best time to open a tab imho, and have been doing it for decades. Thankfully there are a dozen terminals to choose from that don’t make konsole’s minor mistakes. (Although chances are they made others.)
  - weaksauce 1y ago
    I don't think it's super complex with a ton of options any more. Just installed cachyos(arch based) kde plasma and the right click menu looks like this https://i.imgur.com/S59wy2H.png https://i.imgur.com/S59wy2H.png so either they are configuring away a lot of the complexity or the updates to it have been slimming.
    - mixmastamyk 1y ago
      - Four, no really four ways to copy... - Change encoding? I have never changed the encoding of my terminal, not once since first using a computer, circa 1982. UTF8-FTW. - Adjust scrollback, on the context menu? - If you hide the toolbar/menu I believe it adds the main menu to the context menu. And that is where the majority of the hundred options live. And at the end, where a Properties or Preferences entry should live. - Last but not least, no "New Tab" entry, which is the thing I use it for 90% of the time.
      - weaksauce 1y ago
        double click the tab area and you get a new tab. ctrl-n gets you a new tab. i personally wouldn't ever use that feature. I like the extra modes of copying since they all have unique uses and prevent editing in cases. the encoding bit is odd yeah. adjust scrollback is not a common option i suppose. it would be nice to configure the right click menu more but that's not an option i see in many apps so it's a wash. I use the menu so i don't have those options. it may even be configurable via a file somewhere in .config... i haven't tried or been bothered by the defaults enough to do so.
      - lmm 1y ago
        > Four, no really four ways to copy... All of which are useful > Change encoding? I have never changed the encoding of my terminal, not once since first using a computer, circa 1982. Then you've never worked with Japanese. Which is fine, but a significant proportion of the world needs to. > UTF8-FTW Not for Japanese, sadly.
        mixmastamyk 1y ago
- WD-42 1y ago
  https://imgur.com/a/konsole-vs-ghostty-tR4Otmy https://imgur.com/a/konsole-vs-ghostty-tR4Otmy This is stock Konsole vs Ghostty. Notice Ghostty also has multiple tabs open. There is just so much waste in the Konsole UI.
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    Stock yes. Just hide the toolbar. I don't like that either. Turn off main toolbar and session toolbar.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
pxc 1y ago
> So many KDE apps have this same problem. Giant labeled buttons taking up space from the actual content Unlabeled buttons are a scourge, accursed and meaningless hieroglyphs
- brewdad 1y ago
  I do love that the floppy lives on in the Save icon.
- eviks 1y ago
  Unless you remember the meaning , of course, then suddenly the curse is lifted and you just don't waste space
  - pxc 1y ago
    GUIs (and especially buttons) are most useful for things I do infrequently. Frequent tasks are better done by keyboard shortcuts or command line utilities anyway. The only places where I routinely click on label-less icons are in the menu bar/system tray and my browser's always-visible toolbar. I guess both of those places are especially space constrained, which maybe makes it feel more worth it to me. And I also actively arrange all the items in both cases, choosing not just the arrangement but which will show at all. That means I know them basically as soon as I throw them down. I wonder if it would be crazy to have the labels on shown-by-default buttons fade only after a certain number of clicks on them.
    - eviks 1y ago
      > I guess both of those places are especially space constrained, which maybe makes it feel more worth it to me. See how easy it is to justify "the scourge"? Also, this is exactly the same situation here - using a permanent toolbar on your main screen (not a submenu or some secondary settings screen where extra labels don't cost anything) > crazy to have the labels on shown-by-default buttons fade only after a certain number of clicks on them. Great idea, had the same, though an even better is to use frecency as a proxy for memory everywhere (and also apply it to various tips and keybinds etc) - if you've clicked the button 10 times, the label disappears, but if you haven't clicked in a year, it reappears (all configurable per button of course, OS-wide, there are some frequently use symbols like clipboard that you'll never forget due to use in other apps)
heavyset_go 1y ago
That screenshot has all of the Konsole features enabled. You'd use one at a time if you use any at all. > So many KDE apps have this same problem. Right click any KDE app toolbar -> Text position -> Icons only I also believe it's a setting in the System Settings.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  That's why I love KDE. You can have it just the way you like it. Not how someone else decided on. I think a lot of people knock it just from looking at some screenshots of the default options. Not knowing everything is configurable. Think the taskbar (panel) is too thick? Just change it. Don't want that toolbar? No worries just turn it off. It's so good.
  - account42 1y ago
    > That's why I love KDE. You can have it just the way you like it. Not how someone else decided on. That is unfortunately less and less the case. Still better than most alternatives in that regard though.
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    I was in that boat for years. It took forcing myself to switch due to GNOME breaking basic features before I realized just how great and customizable KDE is. You can easily implement Windows or macOS UI layouts using it and it isn't terrible. I actually prefer KDE to either desktop.
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    The context menu is not configureable.
mzajc 1y ago
> Is it really necessary to take up what could be used for 2+ extra lines of terminal output for a labeled Copy button? It's not, which is why the context menu gives you an "Icons Only" option, along with "Text Only", "Text Alongside Icons" (default), and "Text Under Icons". You can also adjust the icon size, or remove the toolbar entirely.
phatskat 1y ago
> This 100%. Just look at the screenshot on the KDE page for Konsole: https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ Oof. It looks like it’s trying to iTerm2 but, as the kids say, it’s not him. I generally don’t use any “default” terminal regardless of OS or DE if I don’t have to. I’m full time on Ghostty these days and I adore it
shmerl 1y ago
It's very easy to customize and remove all the visual noise though.

by WD-42 1y ago

sho_hn 1y ago

In Konsole's defense, this is the actual default appearance of a Konsole window when you launch it for the first time in the current stable release: https://mero.ng/i/lWMWazUP.png https://mero.ng/i/lWMWazUP.png The screenshot on the website has all sorts of optional bits enabled, and I would readily agree is not a good showcase. The reason all those optional bits exist is because you'd be surprised who ends up using a terminal emulator in a general purpose desktop GUI used in many large IT deployments. E.g. a lot of folks who are used to PuTTy on Windows and want a little GUI for SSH connections, and for them this is the game changer. The "try to show all the goods in your screenshot" mindset is really not a good one though, agree :)

mixmastamyk 1y ago
That's better, but the toolbar/buttons could always be configured away. The real problem is the context menu. Has it been simplified or made configurable?
- Liquid_Fire 1y ago
  Out of interest, what do you use the context menu for in a terminal emulator so often that it bothers you? I can't even remember the last time I opened it.
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    I hide all UI and use only the context menu, 90% of the time to open a new tab, 5% of the time to split a tab, and 4% of the time to bring up the config dialog. 1% to open a new window, though I'm often doing Ctrl+Alt+T for that recently. This is what I've done since SGI 4DWM Terminal (and ancient NT Command Prompt), and almost all other terminal emulators can be configured to do so. Konsole stands alone (to my knowledge) in its insistence on cruft all over the interface. The terminal widget itself seems fine. To be clear, I don't mind obscure options, but they should live in the control panel. See my cousin comment for more details.
    - distances 1y ago
      You can eliminate that 90% by Ctrl+Shift+T.
      - mixmastamyk 1y ago
        Doesn't help when coming from a browser. Ctrl+Alt+T works without the Terminal in focus however. Ctrl+Shift+T needs me to click in the terminal first then go back to the keyboard. Waste of time.
        distances 1y ago
        I almost always switch windows with Alt+Tab, not with a mouse, so it fits very well for that flow. Understandable if it doesn't do the trick for you though.
        mixmastamyk 1y ago
        I’m well aware of all these hotkeys. The issue is I’m using the mouse with my browser, scrolling clicking etc. Reading gives me an idea so I click on my terminal that’s always open. This is the best time to open a tab imho, and have been doing it for decades. Thankfully there are a dozen terminals to choose from that don’t make konsole’s minor mistakes. (Although chances are they made others.)
- weaksauce 1y ago
  I don't think it's super complex with a ton of options any more. Just installed cachyos(arch based) kde plasma and the right click menu looks like this https://i.imgur.com/S59wy2H.png https://i.imgur.com/S59wy2H.png so either they are configuring away a lot of the complexity or the updates to it have been slimming.
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    - Four, no really four ways to copy... - Change encoding? I have never changed the encoding of my terminal, not once since first using a computer, circa 1982. UTF8-FTW. - Adjust scrollback, on the context menu? - If you hide the toolbar/menu I believe it adds the main menu to the context menu. And that is where the majority of the hundred options live. And at the end, where a Properties or Preferences entry should live. - Last but not least, no "New Tab" entry, which is the thing I use it for 90% of the time.
    - weaksauce 1y ago
      double click the tab area and you get a new tab. ctrl-n gets you a new tab. i personally wouldn't ever use that feature. I like the extra modes of copying since they all have unique uses and prevent editing in cases. the encoding bit is odd yeah. adjust scrollback is not a common option i suppose. it would be nice to configure the right click menu more but that's not an option i see in many apps so it's a wash. I use the menu so i don't have those options. it may even be configurable via a file somewhere in .config... i haven't tried or been bothered by the defaults enough to do so.
    - lmm 1y ago
      > Four, no really four ways to copy... All of which are useful > Change encoding? I have never changed the encoding of my terminal, not once since first using a computer, circa 1982. Then you've never worked with Japanese. Which is fine, but a significant proportion of the world needs to. > UTF8-FTW Not for Japanese, sadly.
      - mixmastamyk 1y ago
WD-42 1y ago
https://imgur.com/a/konsole-vs-ghostty-tR4Otmy https://imgur.com/a/konsole-vs-ghostty-tR4Otmy This is stock Konsole vs Ghostty. Notice Ghostty also has multiple tabs open. There is just so much waste in the Konsole UI.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Stock yes. Just hide the toolbar. I don't like that either. Turn off main toolbar and session toolbar.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

pxc 1y ago

> So many KDE apps have this same problem. Giant labeled buttons taking up space from the actual content Unlabeled buttons are a scourge, accursed and meaningless hieroglyphs

brewdad 1y ago
I do love that the floppy lives on in the Save icon.
eviks 1y ago
Unless you remember the meaning , of course, then suddenly the curse is lifted and you just don't waste space
- pxc 1y ago
  GUIs (and especially buttons) are most useful for things I do infrequently. Frequent tasks are better done by keyboard shortcuts or command line utilities anyway. The only places where I routinely click on label-less icons are in the menu bar/system tray and my browser's always-visible toolbar. I guess both of those places are especially space constrained, which maybe makes it feel more worth it to me. And I also actively arrange all the items in both cases, choosing not just the arrangement but which will show at all. That means I know them basically as soon as I throw them down. I wonder if it would be crazy to have the labels on shown-by-default buttons fade only after a certain number of clicks on them.
  - eviks 1y ago
    > I guess both of those places are especially space constrained, which maybe makes it feel more worth it to me. See how easy it is to justify "the scourge"? Also, this is exactly the same situation here - using a permanent toolbar on your main screen (not a submenu or some secondary settings screen where extra labels don't cost anything) > crazy to have the labels on shown-by-default buttons fade only after a certain number of clicks on them. Great idea, had the same, though an even better is to use frecency as a proxy for memory everywhere (and also apply it to various tips and keybinds etc) - if you've clicked the button 10 times, the label disappears, but if you haven't clicked in a year, it reappears (all configurable per button of course, OS-wide, there are some frequently use symbols like clipboard that you'll never forget due to use in other apps)

heavyset_go 1y ago

That screenshot has all of the Konsole features enabled. You'd use one at a time if you use any at all. > So many KDE apps have this same problem. Right click any KDE app toolbar -> Text position -> Icons only I also believe it's a setting in the System Settings.

wkat4242 1y ago
That's why I love KDE. You can have it just the way you like it. Not how someone else decided on. I think a lot of people knock it just from looking at some screenshots of the default options. Not knowing everything is configurable. Think the taskbar (panel) is too thick? Just change it. Don't want that toolbar? No worries just turn it off. It's so good.
- account42 1y ago
  > That's why I love KDE. You can have it just the way you like it. Not how someone else decided on. That is unfortunately less and less the case. Still better than most alternatives in that regard though.
- heavyset_go 1y ago
  I was in that boat for years. It took forcing myself to switch due to GNOME breaking basic features before I realized just how great and customizable KDE is. You can easily implement Windows or macOS UI layouts using it and it isn't terrible. I actually prefer KDE to either desktop.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  The context menu is not configureable.

mzajc 1y ago

> Is it really necessary to take up what could be used for 2+ extra lines of terminal output for a labeled Copy button? It's not, which is why the context menu gives you an "Icons Only" option, along with "Text Only", "Text Alongside Icons" (default), and "Text Under Icons". You can also adjust the icon size, or remove the toolbar entirely.

phatskat 1y ago

> This 100%. Just look at the screenshot on the KDE page for Konsole: https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ https://apps.kde.org/konsole/ Oof. It looks like it’s trying to iTerm2 but, as the kids say, it’s not him. I generally don’t use any “default” terminal regardless of OS or DE if I don’t have to. I’m full time on Ghostty these days and I adore it

shmerl 1y ago

It's very easy to customize and remove all the visual noise though.