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I am doing me, and you do you - although I have to say given your posting history, you're an intelligent, principled, and thought out person and there's a part
by xyzelement 1y ago
I am doing me, and you do you - although I have to say given your posting history, you're an intelligent, principled, and thought out person and there's a part of me that's sad to know you're not "casting" that into the next generation. And I say that even though our politics are opposite.
One huge benefit of religion is a timeless/eternal orientation in thinking. Like, if someone takes concepts like "spending eternity in heaven or hell" - they are indeed thinking about eternity, a topic that an atheist never has to be concerned with. And I say this as someone whose religion does not orient around a traditionally understood heaven and hell.
The reason I mention that is because it's obvious that in the grand scheme of things whatever you're worried about today won't matter. Whatever evils you see in the 2024 election (I don't but that's the political difference) pale in comparison to what someone could discern at different points in time. And yet - I am very glad my great-grandparents decided to have my grandmother despite the turmoil around the Soviet revolution. I am glad my grandparents decided to have my parents despite their horrific experience in WW2. Both of my wife's grandparents literally went through concentration camps as eastern European Jews, and still went on to have families. I have cousins born soon after 9/11, etc.
The point is - looking back on it, as real as those events were, it would be exponentially more horrible if they "won" not by how horrible they were, but by making good people give up on the whole game.
If I dare go on a limb - I'll suggest an alternate perspective. Whatever forces caused you to see "fascism and antifeminism" so strongly today that you're not having kids, have done you more permanent harm than anyone else.
- UncleMeat 1y agoI'm a Christian. I think it is strange to make this about some missing timeless/eternal thinking in my life. Frankly, this is the most presumptuous comment I think I have ever received.
- xyzelement 1y agoWhat is the Christian perspective on not having kids because of Trump?
- UncleMeat 1y agoAmong other things, we are rearranging our lives to provide maximum aid for those suffering in the US and abroad. Our time and money is being focused on the poor and downtrodden. I also do not understand why I need to justify this decision in public.
- xyzelement 1y agoFirst, I am sorry as I did not intend to "push" in this way. As I mentioned, I respect your principled posting history and I deeply respect what you wrote above. My last question was one of curiosity. I can reframe but I don't insist on an answer. As I clumsily tried to allude to - I see religion as a source of "timelessness" that anchors somebody to something other than what's happening today. I hear from my religious friends things like "we know it seems today that X, but our faith supports us in believing its Y." So for them, "be fruitful and multiply" would be Gd's eternal command, that would override whatever seems to be the case today. So I was genuinely curious whether that's very different in Christianity (I know there's a huge range of sects and beliefs within it) and how these things are reconciled. But I of course understand that's very personal and I didn't mean to tangle my curiosity with a need for you to "justify your decision". Sorry.
- UncleMeat 1y agoA huge portion of Christians read "be fruitful and multiply" as a command to specific people, not a command in general. And it is nowhere near the core message of the religion. Paul himself praises a childless life. I also find the idea that "thinking eternally" is bound so tightly with "having children" to be very odd.
- xyzelement 1y agoI appreciate your first paragraph and will read more about that. >> I also find the idea that "thinking eternally" is bound so tightly with "having children" to be very odd. I guess I can't relate to that. What I do today in my life is only due to (a) the fact that my ancestors fought and labored to survive and procreate and (b) of the values they passed down. From my grandfather's perspective, I am his agent in today's world, and Gd willing my own grandchildren will be mine (and therefore his) agents in the future. So one thing I meant around eternal here is that my own role and time is less significant in context of this greater continuity. Or put it another way, I could easily find seemingly valid reasons to not have kids but the fear of breaking this cycle and being the last of the line feels to me very opposite of orienting to eternity. Again, I understand that's not the choice you're making and that's totally cool, I am just explaining my framework.
- pike_poker 1y ago[flagged]