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I'm sure Larrabee will be superb any year now. The Xeon phi will rise again. For supporting evidence, the success of Aurora. Weren't the loss-leading arc GPUs c

I'm sure Larrabee will be superb any year now. The Xeon phi will rise again. For supporting evidence, the success of Aurora. Weren't the loss-leading arc GPUs cancelled as well? Maybe that only one generation of them, it does look like some are on the market now. I think this partnership will damage nvidia. It might damage intel, but given they're circling the drain already, it's hard to make matters worse. It's probably bad for consumers in every dimension. Or to take the opposite, if nvidia rolled over intel and fired essentially everyone in the management chain and started trying to run the fabs themselves, good chance they'd turn the ship around and become even more powerful than they already are.

imiric 1y ago
> It might damage intel, but given they're circling the drain already, it's hard to make matters worse. How was Intel "circling the drain"? They have a very competitive offering of CPUs, APUs, and GPUs, and the upcoming Panther Lake and Nova Lake architectures are very promising. Their products compete with AMD, NVIDIA, and ARM SoCs from the likes of Apple. Intel may have been in a rut years ago, but they've recovered incredibly well. This is why I'm puzzled by this decision, and as a consumer, I would rather use a fully Intel system than some bastardized version that also involves NVIDIA. We've seen how well that works with Optimus.
- JonChesterfield 1y ago
  None of their products are competitive, they fired the CEO who was meant to save them, fired tens of thousands of their engineers, sold off massive chunks of the company, they're still bleeding money and begging for state support? Also their network cards no longer work properly which is deeply aggravating as that used to be something I could rely on, just bought some realtek ones to work around the intel ones falling over.
  - gregoryl 1y ago
    I have bad news about realtek networking...
    - dontlaugh 1y ago
      Realtek is actually alright nowadays, even on Linux.
  - imiric 1y ago
    > None of their products are competitive We must live in different universes, then. Intel's 140V competes with and often outperforms AMD's 890M, at around half the power consumption.[1] Intel's B580 competes with AMD's RX 7600 and NVIDIA's RTX 4060, at a fraction of the price of the 4060.[2] They're not doing so well with desktop and laptop CPUs, although their Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake CPUs are still decent performers within their segments. The upcoming Panther Lake architecture is promising to improve this. If these are not the signs of competitive products, and that they're far from "circling the drain", then I don't know what is. FWIW, I'm not familiar with the health of their business, and what it takes to produce these products. But from a consumer's standpoint, Intel hasn't been this strong since... the early 00s? [1]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-890M-vs-Arc-140V_12524_12693.247598.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-890M-vs-Arc-140V_12524_... [2]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Arc-B580-Benchmarks-and-Specs.954008.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Arc-B580-Benchmarks-and-...
    - fluoridation 1y ago
      No way, man. Peak consumer Intel was from Core 2 up to Skylake-ish. That was when they started coasting and handed the market to AMD. Right now they're losing market share to them on mobile, desktop, and server. If we ignore servers, most PCs have an AMD CPU inside. The GPUs might be competitive on price, but that's about it. It's pretty much a hardware open beta.
      - imiric 1y ago
        Ah, I was thinking of Core 2, but was off by a couple of years. Although "peak" consumer Intel was undeniably in the 90s. Like I said, Intel may not be market leader in some segments, but they certainly have very competitive products. The fact they've managed to penetrate the dGPU duopoly, while also making huge strides with their iGPUs, is remarkable on its own. They're not leaders on desktops and servers, but still have respectable offerings there. None of this points to a company that's struggling, but to a healthy market where the consumer benefits. News of two rivals collaborating like this is not positive for consumers.
- pengaru 1y ago
  When your own most competitive products are being made by your competitor for you, while you still have the cost center of running your own production fabs incapable of producing your most competitive products, and receiving bailouts just to keep the lights on... Some would say that's circling the drain.
whatever1 1y ago
Has Nvidia has ran any fab successfully ?
- JonChesterfield 1y ago
  Nope. It will/would be a learning curve. They'd probably seed it with strategic hires from TSMC.

imiric 1y ago

> It might damage intel, but given they're circling the drain already, it's hard to make matters worse. How was Intel "circling the drain"? They have a very competitive offering of CPUs, APUs, and GPUs, and the upcoming Panther Lake and Nova Lake architectures are very promising. Their products compete with AMD, NVIDIA, and ARM SoCs from the likes of Apple. Intel may have been in a rut years ago, but they've recovered incredibly well. This is why I'm puzzled by this decision, and as a consumer, I would rather use a fully Intel system than some bastardized version that also involves NVIDIA. We've seen how well that works with Optimus.

JonChesterfield 1y ago
None of their products are competitive, they fired the CEO who was meant to save them, fired tens of thousands of their engineers, sold off massive chunks of the company, they're still bleeding money and begging for state support? Also their network cards no longer work properly which is deeply aggravating as that used to be something I could rely on, just bought some realtek ones to work around the intel ones falling over.
- gregoryl 1y ago
  I have bad news about realtek networking...
  - dontlaugh 1y ago
    Realtek is actually alright nowadays, even on Linux.
- imiric 1y ago
  > None of their products are competitive We must live in different universes, then. Intel's 140V competes with and often outperforms AMD's 890M, at around half the power consumption.[1] Intel's B580 competes with AMD's RX 7600 and NVIDIA's RTX 4060, at a fraction of the price of the 4060.[2] They're not doing so well with desktop and laptop CPUs, although their Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake CPUs are still decent performers within their segments. The upcoming Panther Lake architecture is promising to improve this. If these are not the signs of competitive products, and that they're far from "circling the drain", then I don't know what is. FWIW, I'm not familiar with the health of their business, and what it takes to produce these products. But from a consumer's standpoint, Intel hasn't been this strong since... the early 00s? [1]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-890M-vs-Arc-140V_12524_12693.247598.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeon-890M-vs-Arc-140V_12524_... [2]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Arc-B580-Benchmarks-and-Specs.954008.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Arc-B580-Benchmarks-and-...
  - fluoridation 1y ago
    No way, man. Peak consumer Intel was from Core 2 up to Skylake-ish. That was when they started coasting and handed the market to AMD. Right now they're losing market share to them on mobile, desktop, and server. If we ignore servers, most PCs have an AMD CPU inside. The GPUs might be competitive on price, but that's about it. It's pretty much a hardware open beta.
    - imiric 1y ago
      Ah, I was thinking of Core 2, but was off by a couple of years. Although "peak" consumer Intel was undeniably in the 90s. Like I said, Intel may not be market leader in some segments, but they certainly have very competitive products. The fact they've managed to penetrate the dGPU duopoly, while also making huge strides with their iGPUs, is remarkable on its own. They're not leaders on desktops and servers, but still have respectable offerings there. None of this points to a company that's struggling, but to a healthy market where the consumer benefits. News of two rivals collaborating like this is not positive for consumers.
pengaru 1y ago
When your own most competitive products are being made by your competitor for you, while you still have the cost center of running your own production fabs incapable of producing your most competitive products, and receiving bailouts just to keep the lights on... Some would say that's circling the drain.

whatever1 1y ago

Has Nvidia has ran any fab successfully ?

JonChesterfield 1y ago
Nope. It will/would be a learning curve. They'd probably seed it with strategic hires from TSMC.